Subject:
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Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:55:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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291 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> I think the U.S. public is becoming wary of Bush's motivation. They may not
> like Saddam Hussein, but the Al Queda connection is tenuous at the very best.
I saw a poll the other day (cited on CNN, but I can't remember the
uber-source) that showed that about 45% of Americans believed that the Bush
administration would intentionally falsify information to make its case, and
something like 58% believed Bush would deliberately omit information that
hurt his case. I wish I could remember the exact figures.
> Those governments that support the US against the wishes of their citizens
> may find out the importance of listening to the electorate come election
> time. In the short term, though, it's the support of the governments that
> counts.
Rightly said. I should have clarified: "For purposes of this conflict,
the support of non-US governments is more important to the US than the
support of non-US citizens."
> > Although I reject the "justification" for this war, I wish I could agree
> > that it's flatly illegal. I've heard a number of debates, and it seems that
> > the actual illegality of the war is at best unclear.
>
> Legal war? Seems to me an oxymoron. Justifiable, maybe - I suppose a war
> against any tyrant like Saddam is justifiable from some standpoint. But if
> it is, why now? Why us? If Bush can't get the world to side with him, will
> it be worth the price?
Well, "legal" in terms of adhering with UN resolutions etc...
In any case, the immediate urgency of this war has not been justified.
Yes, he's a brutal dictator, but he's been a brutal dictator for decades,
sometimes with US endorsement and funding!
> I think it more likely Saddam is being singled out because he is a cheap and
> easy *stationary* target. Though, of course, no where near as cheap and
> easy as Bush had hoped.
Yes indeed. That's why North Korea is a diplomatic situation, and I
suspect it's also part of the reason that Bush isn't pressing Saudi Arabia
to hard about suspected ties to al Qaida.
> But the claim that there is nothing Saddam can do is absolutely false
> (though realistically true). He can leave power. Now why that would
> satisfy Bush I'm not quite sure since it would leave the exact same power
> structure with a Saddam-of-a-different-name in control. Given that Saddam
> would be willing to lose 90% (a low estimate no doubt) of the population to
> retain power (and would lose no sleep over it) it ain't gonna happen. If
> this was restated so that there is nothing Saddam can do on the subject of
> WoMD (weapons of...) to satisfy Bush, yes, I agree.
Heh. I hadn't even thought of Saddam's abdication as an option, I guess
for the same reasons you cite.
> The French have bitterly resented the U.S. leadership in NATO fairly
> consistently, so I must say I pretty much dismiss their opinions out of
> hand. But to be fair, I pretty much dismiss Dubya's opinions out of hand, too.
Hmm... "Even-handed out-of-handedness." I like it!
Dave!
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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| (...) I believe *any* politician will do such, but some more than others (Dubya!). war? Seems to me an oxymoron. Justifiable, maybe - I suppose a war (...) Okay, I was being pendantic. But the resolution the UN passed made it look fairly legal (...) (21 years ago, 12-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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| (...) I think the U.S. public is becoming wary of Bush's motivation. They may not like Saddam Hussein, but the Al Queda connection is tenuous at the very best. (...) Those governments that support the US against the wishes of their citizens may find (...) (21 years ago, 12-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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