Subject:
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Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:24:31 GMT
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Viewed:
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214 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> This is awesome news... not only might this little war we're about to have
> finish up the UN as an active force, it might well do in NATO too.
>
> From the text of a speech by Senator John McCain (R., Ariz.) on February 8,
> 2003, at the Munich Conference on Security Policy before European Parliament
> and defense ministers: (available here, among other places:
> http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-mccain021103.asp)
>
> - start -
>
> Iraq is the test that will determine whether the United States and Europe
> can rely on the founding charters of NATO and the U.N. Security Council to
> protect their most fundamental security interests--or whether we have
> entered an age in which security is pursued by other means. Should great
> powers determine that multilateral institutions such as NATO and the
> Security Council cannot protect their interests when they are imperiled,
> countries will increasingly be tempted to go it alone rather than relying on
> international institutions that shrink from their mission of upholding
> international security. The United States might succeed in such an
> environment, though I hate to contemplate it, but many nations, including
> many in Europe, will not.
>
> - end -
>
> He's right. The US is now that much closer to dismissing NATO as something
> to care about.
It could be argued that NATO and the UN are gaining respect in the
international community for failing the follow Bush's line. Indeed, it is
notable that a large proportion of the public internationally will only support
a war which has UN support [69% in the UK]. 47% of the UK public feel the arms
inspections should continue.
>
> Just as I predicted earlier in this very forum,
Did you really 'predict' that?
> the leaders of France and
> Germany are going to let Turkey get attacked by Iraq just to spite the US
> rather than work within NATO to take precautions,
Precautions against what; Iraq lashing out in self-defence after being attacked
illegally?
> even when explicitly asked
> by Turkey for aid. Apparently Turkey's invocation of Article IV of the NATO
> charter isn't up to France's dainty standards?
It is not everyone's duty to reduce the threat of conflict? Why does Turkey or
the US require NATO support anyway? Is it a fig-leaf?
It is notable that:
38% of the UK public feel "The United States is a threat to international
security and peace". Only 45% feel the same about Iraq.
46% of the UK public feel "America has singled out Saddam Hussein because he is
a threat to U.S. oil interests and influence in the Middle East."
72% of the UK public feel that "President Bush is determined to go to war.
There is nothing Saddam can do that would satisfy him"
When asked "Which of these do you regard as the greatest threat to world
peace?", this was the response from the UK public:
United States 32%
N Korea 26%
Iraq 25%
Israel 8%
Palestinians 2%
Iran 0%
None of them 2%
Don't know 5%
Given that the UK is more “pro war” than France, do those stats help explain why
France does not support your "president"?
The poll results are from C4 news – a channel that is legally mandated to
provide impartial news coverage:
http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/02/week_2/11_poll.html
Scott A
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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| (...) Honestly, it's hard to say. There's the rabid (and, frankly, fascist) campaign by the Bush administration to marginalize and demonize anyone voicing reservations about prosecuting this unjust war, so it's difficult to assess the actual (...) (21 years ago, 12-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
|
| (...) On a similar note, the American movie "Bowling for Columbine" screened in Oslo a couple of weeks ago, and received very good ratings. The reviewer were generally more happy about this movie than with "Two Towers"! While "Bowling..." is (...) (21 years ago, 16-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | The beginning of the end of NATO?
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| This is awesome news... not only might this little war we're about to have finish up the UN as an active force, it might well do in NATO too. From the text of a speech by Senator John McCain (R., Ariz.) on February 8, 2003, at the Munich Conference (...) (21 years ago, 12-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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