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I'm starting a new thread to address this topic partly because Dave's original post was hung on a thread and partly because that thread is so big. I think there are two different questions here Should discussion on a topic cease (for a while, (...) (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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Larry, I'm really flattered by the effort you put into this troll. However, I just can't be bothered showing how ironic I find what you are saying. Scott A BTW: Do you remember when you spoofed my identity? (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) I'm an incredibly tolerant person. It takes quite a bit to get me to speak ill of someone. Scott Arthur has pushed me to that point. I register as one point of evidence the current debate between Dave K and Scott A. Dave was trying to be nice (...) (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) Don't think I'd call it a troll, per se; though there were elements that were troll-ish. (...) But you could be bothered to say that you couldn't be bothered to say how ironic you find it? I can't be bothered saying how silly I think that is. (...) (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) What is amusing is that I had just sent David a private message telling him the pattern of Scott's debating "style" and the exchange just preceeding your message was the proof of it. It's like pulling teeth. You have to go round and round in (...) (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) D'oh! I forget sometimes that my e-mail program for my home account has to be started manually when I'm at work. So I didn't get Bruce's message until now. So there you are. Dave K (22 years ago, 13-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I seem to remember that the last time we interacted here, your post was described as an “extreme overreaction”… and you were advised to ignore me. ;) (...) …and I am still grateful for that and your continued involvement on Lugnet (...) As I (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Indeed, some were troll-ish – the rest were plain trolls. ;) (...) I’m sure you’ll agree that showing and saying are two different things? ;) (...) That is certainly not my understanding. ;) (...) I did what I did in good faith and in plain (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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I'm probably making a big mistake in responding, but... (...) Ok, I dug out the post I believe you are referring to. In that particular exchange, you were choosing to jump on a single point of mine (as you do to everyone) and tearing me down for it. (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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I think if we bring it right back to the beginning of this particular thread, Larry posted many good ideas and ways for us to agree to disagree and move on. Let us all, then, in the spirit of gentlemen, move on from this particular issue to other (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm sorry, Dave, but how can there be a clean slate when Scott is dirtying it faster than it can be cleaned? Your current discussion with Scott simply illustrates all of his usual tricks: decrying personal comments while getting in as many as (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) Hi Bruce, It's those darn Christian ethics of mine--I always have this prevailing hope that people can be redeemed. I'm not the one who do the redeeming, but they can, for themselves, show some sort of movement to bettering their situation and (...) (22 years ago, 16-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) How so? (...) Oh? What is your understanding? (...) No you didn't. The topic was already discussed and out it the open. People knew exactly what was being referenced, which is why you were banned. Your demonstration of a point that was already (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It was a jest. But I do view that post as a troll. The post is 1000+ word attack on me, and a request that all ignore me. But check the last 2 lines: ==+== I admit a bit of cheating on ignoring him. if someone else responds, I have been known (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes: <snip> (...) Scott, You, of all people, should not point out the shortcoming of others with regard to "justifying or retracting the statement" when found in error. That's from one concerned patron to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) No it wasn't. From: (URL) think there are two different questions here Should discussion on a topic cease (for a while, permanently) if certain things indicate it might be a good idea? Sometimes there are people who post here that some may (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) It wasn't what? A 1000+ word attack on me or a request that all ignore me? (...) Is that good or bad? (...) I'm not sure I accept your analogy, can you show why it is relevant? (...) Can I impersonate someone by using my own name? Take a look, (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It was only in part a request to ignore you. It was not a total troll post. (...) It is better than not admitting that he behaves wrongly. (...) You could have explained how to fraudulently post instead of actually doing it. You could also (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Obviously, I'm look at this from a different perspective. (...) You've not answered my question. (...) Indeed. Did I not apologise? Was my apology not good enough for you? (...) Given that shoplifting is a crime with a victim, I'm not sure (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It was not a total troll post. Feel free to show that it was. (...) Yes I did. It is better to admit than not. (...) The apology was acceptable. But your criticism of Larry for the same seems hypocritcal. (...) The victims were people who (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) With respect, you have not answered my question: Is that good or bad? (...) I was able to apologise and acknowledge my errors. Further, I don't view it as the "same" - can you show how it is? Like I said, my action may have been silly, but it (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What, no response? Example of lack of justification. (...) Yes I did. Admitting fault is better than not admitting fault. It is not as good as never having acted wrongly in the first place, though. (...) You both impersonated someone by (...) (22 years ago, 19-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ding ding ding! We have a winner! Now, can YOU and DK finally beat a clue into your heads, and realize that you are never going to get Scott to admit to his errors, and IGNORE HIM? I don't know how many times people have mentioned in here that (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) Does "bent" mean in the US what is does in the UK? Scott A (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Hey Tom, It's hard to work against ones upbringing. My Papa always told me, "Son", he'd say, "No matter what you do, do your best. If it doesn't work out, well so what? At least you did your best." The idea is for *me* to do what *I* can. If the (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stopping topics vs. dealing with troublemakers and nonconstructive participants
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(...) Well said. However, realizing WHEN to let it go and move on seems to be a problem (for many, if not most, in this specific group). Can you please just realize that it's time to let it go? Instead of adding to the posts in here (like I am by (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Very true, but the Wright brothers didn't say "Let's try the same methods that failed for all those other guys." They also didn't say "Let's try to make our airplane work by flying repeatedly into an impenetrable barrier." Your attempt to (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I thought I had responded already? (...) From my perspective, Larry's post was a troll. I read it as just another of similar posts he has made. I stopped myself going through it line-by-line just after it was posted – as I thought it would be (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What does it mean in the UK? In Norway, the Norwegian equivalent of "bent" would mean drunk or gay. Fredrik (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'd be happy so see where. (...) I would acknowledge your perspecive if it had a basis I could see. I could claim that George Bush is smarter than Stephan Hawking, but I don't expect you to acknowledge my perspective without me explaining (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Bent" can mean many different things, you have to place it in context. In the context I was using it (trying to straighten SA out), it simply meant that people aren't going to be able to straighten him out: (...) Didn't think that it could be that (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I had already said it was a matter of perspective. (...) I get the feeling you are being obtuse... (...) After avoiding the question a number times, you now claim the question is invalid. I'll try again; Is that, on balance, good or bad? (...) (...) (22 years ago, 28-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Alright then, I don't accept your perspective. I think it's a baseless emotional response to Larry. (...) That's another baseless accusation AND name calling. (...) There is no balance point. There is no line to cross between "good" and "bad". (...) (21 years ago, 30-Dec-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You are entitled to that view. Do you care to justify it? (...) could (...) expect (...) me (...) the (...) at (...) .now you are being obtuse ;) (...) or (...) paper (...) not (...) Why are you trying so hard not to answer such a simple (...) (21 years ago, 10-Jan-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ok. You said it was a matter of perspective, not definition, thereby making it your opinion. Hence, you rank the term "troll" as a qualitative value rather than a definitive one. And because of your repeated dislike of Larry, I think you held (...) (21 years ago, 10-Jan-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I fear your “lack of justification” argument against me has grown rather diffuse. Part of the problem is the lack of good evidence you have been willing to produce. The text in this post contains a quote that I said “contains a great (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jan-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well-- you could, but would that somehow prove that you didn't deserve it? (...) Alright then-- If that's the case, then it's my opinion that you didn't like the implication of an attack on your person which is what you read into Larry's post, (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jan-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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David, I have a couple of issues with your post which I'd like to highlight before tackling the other points you raise: 1. Issue 1 (...) I'm not being clear on this one bit. In fact I've made a bit of a mess. Let's rewind[?]. Asking me to find (...) (21 years ago, 28-Jan-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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