Subject:
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Re: Can't Drive 65 (was 'Re: Tolerance of vice')
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:33:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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393 times
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Just some thoughts.... (bad ones at that)
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher Tracey writes:
> > Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> >
> > > Bad example... since you're referring to noncommon law. Speed limits tend to
> > > be revenue generation devices nowadays more than anything else.
> >
> > Please elaborate... with statistics if you so prefer. :)
>
> I'll just cite what I learned in Transportation Engineering. The proper way
> to set speed limits , on a road that wasn't explicitly engineered with
> limits in mind (1) is the 85th percentile rule.
>
> This rule assumes that people basically are good, conscientious drivers. You
> go out to this road and you observe traffic speeds on a good clear day with
> good visibility and adhesion, and you set the limit to the 85th percentile
> (such that 15% of the people are going faster than the limit)
>
> THAT is the correct speed for that stretch of road.
Ok, so let's say that the average driving speed in america has gone up
over the past few decades. I believe it has, but I don't have a
statistic in front of me. The reasons for this increase are numerous
but include more fuel efficient cars, antilock brakes, longer commutes,
etc. This rule says that we could, as a group, continue to go faster as
time goes on...
> ANY lower speed is too slow for conditions and is set for some other reason
> than safety of the drivers or pedestrians in the area. Typically revenue
> enhancement.
There has to be an upper limit... one based on practicality
> Note that this works even in residential areas, even with kids in the area,
> as long as the "kids are in the area" signs are up... because most people
> (2) are good drivers.
Having been stuck on the futon in the living room for two days with a
bum back I think I have a dataset showing that more than 15% of the
people driving in front of my house are exceeding the speed limit.
> > Are you denying that speed limits also serve to regulate traffic
> > patterns, allow drivers to avoid accidents by reducing stopping
> > distance(dependent on ~following the limit of course), etc ?
>
> Certainly not. These are *all* valid factors for determining speed. But the
> 85th percentile rule takes all this into account. Because people are
> generally good (drivers). And because the people acting in aggregate (market
> forces) are more accurate than some one guy deciding without data what the
> speed ought to be.
Kinda like the idea that you should put the sidewalks in on a campus
after it's opened and people start moving around.
> Revenue enhancement, however, is not a valid factor for determining speed.
> Neither are the desires of the residents of the area (assuming those "watch
> out for kids" signs are up, that is).
Agree on the first point. Totally disagree on the second. WHy
shouldn't the residents of an area determine what the "safe" and
desirable speed through their neighborhood?
> 2 - Contrary to the bumper sticker I saw today (on a car vigorously
> tailgating someone, ironically) "why am I the only good driver on this
> planet?"...
-chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Can't Drive 65 (was 'Re: Tolerance of vice')
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| (...) Who are smart enough to know what level or risk is appropriate in all situations. Right? (...) The 'correct' speed. (...) What Larry is saying is that while they might be exceeding the posted speed limit, the problem is that the posted speed (...) (23 years ago, 29-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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