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In: (URL) Arthur derides the US constitution with these words: (...) Well that "centuries old piece of paper" (parchment, actually) has kept us free, despite his scorn for it. Freer than he is, in fact, although he'll never admit it. He prefers to (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I see. (...) Do you agree with my words? lol. You make it sound like I've been trying to burn the thing since it was penned! (...) Tell that to the communists and Japanese Americans who per periscuted in the name of freedom in your fair land. (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In a whispered tone : {Pst – A quiet word in your ear. Be careful Larry. With all this fuss and noise people might think you have something to hide. They might think you are trying to hide that fact that you are failing to answer my points and that (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Larry: I'm glad that you spoke to Scott's comments. As soon as I read them yesterday, I tried to draft a reply that wasn't full of anger, but realized that I couldn't at the time, so I dropped it. I suppose that the jist of my reply to his (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I don't send Christmas cards, I'm not christian. But you won't be getting a Winter Solstice card either, no. (...) Charitably, we even extend that right to foreigners (speaking on American soil, which this venue is an outpost of) such as (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I will offer that if apologies are to made over colonial history, then we really do owe the Canadians an apology for the sacking of York (Toronto) during the War of 1812. (1) Up until that time (as I understand it) there was much sentiment on (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Agreed. (...) Agreed again. (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GL3uJ3.L3D@lugnet.com... (...) Even though you are happy to see the son suffer for the sins of his father? lawrence (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yeh, I can't get with that scorn. It's not like the British legal system is some paragon of virtue and morality--tort law alone does not the entire US justice system make! (...) <ramble> There *is* a culture-specific reason why the (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Excellent point. Without wanting to appear like I am cavilling I wish people would stand back and think about how they would think had they not been so fortunate to be born in their native land. I see a hint of arrogance in Larry's assertion (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Snipped everything I agree with, and the comments on the remaining should be viewed somewhat lightheartedly... (...) Well of course you do. You DID see my humility score, right? The US IS the best country in the world, but not to worry, the UK is (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GL3vzG.1zB@lugnet.com... (...) There is no way that the US can be considered better than the UK. Name me one time ever you beat us at Cricket. lawrence (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm certainly not *happy* to see it, but the alternatives are less just, in the specific instance and in the long term effects on society. (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm certainly not *happy* to see it, but the alternatives are less just, in the specific instance and in the long term effects on society. (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Not Cricket (was Re: "Centuries old piece of paper" still pretty darn good
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(...) Not ever even playing you... now that *in itself* proves our superiority. BTW you set FUT wrong... the very IDEA of Cricket is laughable so this is FUT .fun ++Lar (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) OK, why did this stutter? Web interface was fixed to prevent char for char dups, I thought. Sorry about that peeps. (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) BWAAAA! I can't disagree there. I did see some people playing cricket here in NJ down by the Raritan, which was a pretty odd spectacle; however, most of them were Indian, Bangladeshi, and/or Pakistani, and cricket *is* of course the consummate (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Indeed. And rather than answer it - Larry deletes it! He needs to get his head out of the sand. Scott A (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm pretty sure they have, did the USA not have a good cricket system in the 1800's? Scott A (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | What, no answer? (Re: "Centuries old piece of paper" still pretty darn good)
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"Scott A" <eh105jb@mx1.pair.com> wrote in message news:<GL3oK6.4E4@lugnet.com>... (...) us (...) What, no answer? (...) was (...) the (...) What, no answer? (...) imposed, (...) What, no answer? Scott A (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GL3xM2.7E3@lugnet.com... (...) the (...) the (...) in the (...) Well if you're going by cricket loss/win, doesn't that make -Australia- somewhere near the top? Hell, it even puts New (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) I have made this point before: (URL) (...) Then perhaps you do not understand that the document is holding you hostage to reason and change. The gun debate is a good example of that. The fact remains that (as I understand it) GWB can erode (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "humility"
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(...) I was not aware that there was a competition for the "best country in the world". If I were to choose, I doubt it would be the UK or the USA. I'd probably choose some small state which did not bully anyone, support human rights abuses - but (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's a ridiculous statement. And it is so poorly supported by any meaningful argument as to be pointless to debate the matter. (...) No, that would be false. GWB might wish to errode my rights, but that would be what is so great about our (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What I mean is that rather than debate these issues, we get an argument that goes like this: "It's in the constitution, so we can't change it". I find that "ridiculous". Here is an example: (URL) Gore declared that "the Constitution is a (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well almost any kind of minor legal hassle can have the appearance of erroding my rights -- including a bill to stop terrorist activities. The real test comes in time, tested in the courts, and sometimes even retested in the courts. Sometimes (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It does not sound all that great when you describe it like that? (...) I agree with some of what you say, but at times I think we get too hung up on property rights. (...) Thanks again for your comments. I think we *all* have good things to (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, that's human history for you then. It's not the case that your country has anything better to offer, I know. It's trial and error, and so on...sometimes justice doesn't come quickly, or even at all. The Constitution is NOT what the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The problem with your system is the huge inequalities in your country. Political power is bought and sold like cheese at a cheesemongers. People keep guns to protect themselves from there *own* government. Your healthcare system is derided (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's a gross overstatement, and a pretty glib generalization. influence, perhaps; but political *power* must be negotiated. And you don't think this happens in Britain? Please. You just don't talk about it quite the same way, in part because (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It was meant to be a caricature – and I said it was! (...) What I was talking about was how in the USA the main political parties are hugely indebted to their sponsors. On of the criticisms of GWB's NMD was that it was payback. Dan has alluded (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Money is a form of power. You have more money, you have more power. I'm not talking about the United States, mind you, I'm talking about the world at large throughout history. I'll grant you it's pretty blatant here. (...) No, that's not (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And reform in this area is coming -- give it time. Even the two party system is slowly but surely under attack. Again, time will correct these issues. As far as the whole gun thing goes: Sorry to disappoint you but I believe that the ruling (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Mature democracies outlaw them. :-) (...) In my ideal there would be no charities. We can save that one for later. (...) Scotland - not really England - hmm London - Yes (...) GP on demand (walk-in clinic) Specialist in less than 1 month (I'm (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) My comment was caricature. (...) I would say "free", but try to talk be round if you want! (...) They are freedoms to me... perhaps it is my culture. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) My point exactly, if not directly stated. (...) A bit garbled - I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Sorry. But I think I address what you are trying to say below. (...) No, it's not you culture. The people of Chicago often noted that (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I said it was a caricature in the message you replied to(!) :) (...) I would say "free", but try to talk me round if you want! (...) So you think I'm less free as I don't/can't have a gun, even though I would feel less free if I did have one? (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I said nothing about guns in specific. Nor does this address what I said: you can give up a freedom for security. Okay, this is what you have done: you can't carry a gun, but you feel more secure because of it. You'd rather have the security (...) (23 years ago, 16-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hmm. I see your point. Secure means this: "able to avoid being harmed by any risk, danger or threat" Simply, free means this "not limited or controlled". I think the UK being "gun free", gives me both. I suppose another freedom I have lost (...) (23 years ago, 17-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Public v Private Health Care (Re: "The Constitution is what the judges say it is")
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(...) I looked at this a little more. The USA spends 12.9% of its GDP on health (highest in the world). The UK spends just 6.8% of GDP. France spends 9.3% and has the best Healthcare system - as rated by WHO (not the pop group). The UK system is (...) (23 years ago, 18-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Iceland, if it weren't for the inability to avoid tobacco smoke, would be very near the top of my list. As I understand it, modern Iceland is a derivative of the only real-world example of Privately Produced Law. The have almost no crime. And (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) *And* they have some majorly kickin' 4 wheel drives. One of the carmags I read on airplanes had a "one lap around X" article which they do as a regular feature, and the X in this case was Iceland. They hooked up with an outfit called Artic (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) I have no real idea about that, but I have a feeling their system of government is based on the Danish system. Perhaps I'm thinking of Greenland? (...) We almost had a war with Iceland - the cod war. Yes, it was all about fish: (URL)And no one (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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