Subject:
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Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:01:50 GMT
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Viewed:
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485 times
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> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes:
> > Precisely, like in Japan and look at their alarming rise in heart disease.
>
> I'd be a fool to deny that there's a connection, but I wonder if other
> newly-acquired habits have likewise contributed to this rise. For instance
> (and I ask both rhetorically and because I don't know), how has the
> incidence of cigarette smoking changed during this time, or how has the
> level of daily stress changed? I'd be further interested to see a
> time:heart-disease graph to see how long it took to rise after the war.
That's a good idea! I remember a segment on "20/20" regarding the modern
Japanese lifestyle, particularly Tokyo businessmen. Yeah, I do believe they
mentioned more cigarette smoking, LONG ass-kicking hours at stressful jobs
(away from family), more alcohol consumption (usually getting hammered after
work), less exercise and generally cramped living. But the big thing they
pointed out is their post WWII acquired taste for red meat and incidental
rise in arteriosclerosis and colon cancer, namely with the businessmen I
mentioned. I think the red meat is the main culprit because of all it's
saturated fats and cholesterol but absolutely cigarettes, drinking, stress
and lack of exercise hasten the effects.
> > But you know there are many cultures that ARE fundementally
> > vegetarian -- Hindus, Buddhists, various African tribes, even some Native
> > American tribes.
>
> Undeniably--I was just voicing a caution that some might summarily equate
> vegetarianism with morality, when it's not automatically the case.
That's right, being a vegetarian doesn't suddenly increase a person's
morality. Did you know Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian? The thing is, though,
I do think that vegetarianism naturally lends itself to a more earth
conscious attitude. Many vegetarians end up falling into other good habits
such as recycling, conserving energy, and healthy living (exercise and
activity). But I am aware of those "vegetarians" out there with the big SUVs
sucking up gas, using foam cups for their coffee, and so on. California has
a lot of that kind of double standard, where it's "hip" and "trendy" to do
something healthy or environmental, but other related stuff doesn't get
done. It makes vegetarians in general look pretty flaky and stupid.
My thing about meat, as I said before, is that eating animals is natural and
not immoral (I do think certain animals shouldn't be eaten simply because
their meat isn't healthy). However, there are certain principles and
practices to adhere to so that our meat is clean, healthy and killed in good
conscience. We must ensure the animal is raised without cruelity or
unhealthy chemicals and that the animal is slaughtered mercifully. Call it a
pact with God or nature, we do our part by showing respect for life.
Other practices, such as torturous animal experiments or killing animals
only for their skins and furs (or other trophy killing) is immoral, in my
opinion. Also, I think modern whale hunting is immoral. It is a brutal and
outdated practice because the product (whale oil) can be easily made
synthetically. And because whales are endangered, even native cultures that
still hunt them are wise to stop and allow the population to bounce back.
I recall a Scandinavian town that "celebrates" it's whaling heritage each
year by driving schools of migrating pilot whales into the harbor where they
are butchered by the hundreds, till the water is thick red with blood. The
people use guns, axes, even kitchen knives (basically any sharp object they
can find) and hack away at the helpless whales all morning and afternoon. No
meat is taken. They just call it a day and hop back in their cars to head
home. I respect other cultures, but stuff like that is just plain stupid and
needs to stop.
So, yes being vegetarian doesn't make anyone more moral but neither does
eating meat, especially from suffering animals raised in filth and cruelity
and especially in the amounts Americans consume. Mainstream American meat
fits that category and we're better off without it, for health and moral
reasons, until our practices change for the better.
Dan
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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| (...) I think this is a pretty one-sided analysis. All of those are cofactors and I think it would be pretty much an exercise in futility to try to say that one is the main culprit and the others are merely exacerbations. Something that an analysis (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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| Sorry for the delay in replying. (...) Here's an interesting stat from (URL) thirty-five countries surveyed in 1991, the United States cardiovascular death rate ranked 17th for both males and females. The highest death rates were in the Soviet (...) (23 years ago, 10-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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| (...) I'd be a fool to deny that there's a connection, but I wonder if other newly-acquired habits have likewise contributed to this rise. For instance (and I ask both rhetorically and because I don't know), how has the incidence of cigarette (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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