Subject:
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Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:58:32 GMT
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Viewed:
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606 times
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Daniel Jassim wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> > I think this is a pretty one-sided analysis. All of those are cofactors and
> > I think it would be pretty much an exercise in futility to try to say that
> > one is the main culprit and the others are merely exacerbations.
>
> Heart disease (arteriosclerosis) is characterized by the blockage and
> hardening of arteries in the body by cholesterol. Therefore, red meat IS the
> main culprit because of it's rich cholesterol content. Red meat was not a
> big part of the Japanese diet until more recent times. When they began
> eating lots of it doctors noticed the dramatic rise in heart disease,
> something we were noticing in America too. Smoking, stress and lack of
> exercise ARE cofactors that hasten the disease. Smoking constricts blood
> vessels, stress does the same as well as elevating the body's natural
> production of cholesterol, and lack of exercise contributes to weakening the
> heart and weight gain, further constricting blood flow. But the main point
> is that cholesterol IS the substance that blocks arteries and red meat is
> high in cholesterol.
>
> > Well...I guess someone who doesn't eat meat _only_ for health reasons, and
> > has no attraction to being nice to the creatures, is vegetarian without
> > added morality. But even then, their works are doing good, they just aren't
> > being done for that reason.
>
> It's that double standard I mentioned earlier, simple self interest vs. the
> bigger picture.
>
> > I think that if someone is vegetarian for moral reasons, then it _does_
> > "increase" their morality.
>
> Exactly.
>
> > > Did you know Adolph Hitler was a vegetarian?
>
> > Sure. And he was more moral than he might have otherwise been because of it.
>
> Moral in the loosest sense of the word because Hitler was a psycho son of a
> bitch.
>
> > > The thing is, though,
> > > I do think that vegetarianism naturally lends itself to a more earth
> > > conscious attitude. Many vegetarians end up falling into other good habits
> > > such as recycling, conserving energy, and healthy living (exercise and
> > > activity).
> >
> > How? I don't see the connection.
>
> Look at it as a door that opens other doors, granted not everyone opens all
> of them. Once you learn the hidden facts about something I think it
> increases the likelihood of learning more about other things. This is
> natural human curiousity and the domino effect of learning and discovery. I
> think it becomes more difficult as one gets older because certain habits and
> paradigms take deep roots.
I've seen the cycle Dan describes many times.
> > I'm actually pretty cynical about
> > recycling when I see the stuff we put out at the curb just piling up like a
> > landfill.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by it "piling up." Do you mean it looks like a
> big mess on recycle day? Perhaps your service is slow or people need more or
> bigger recycling bins? Either way, recycling is a noble and practical idea.
> Why throw something away when the materials can be reconstituted and reused
> over and over again? That means conserving of raw materials and less
> accumulation in land fills. Sounds good to me!
I think what Chris means is that a lot of stuff that we put out at the
curb to recycle is actually landfilled if there is no market for it.
'Recycled' newspapers are commonly discarded in landfills. I think a
good portion of the plastic we recycle is discard. Don't take this
information as an excuse not to recycle- Collecting and dumping it in
one place could allowing the mining of it later, as resources become
scarce.
In addition to recycling I think what we need to do reduce the about of
trash we produce. My town recently got those trash bins that are picked
up by the trucks with arm on the side (we call them curbies). They
automatically gave every house and each apartment one of these giant
bins that hold 96 gallons of trash. My wife and typically throw out
about two to three gallons of trash per week from our house. These bins
we got were 32 times the size we needed. I did eventually manage to
snag a 34 gallon one from the the city (which is still way to big). I
know that there are families or large households that do dispose of
that much trash in a week, but there are apartments that have 2 people
living in them that overflow the 96 gallon bin every week. It's insane!
> > I don't think anyone has to justify their stance to you by becoming a more
> > well-rounded radical greeny. People have lots of reasons for doing their
> > thing, and while we can wish that someone would do more, I'm not sure I care
> > for your expressed attitude.
>
> "Well-rounded radical greeny?" That's a good one, Chris, I'll have to
> remember that, along with "spineless wastes of time." As I said, I'm talking
> about the double standard and people not practicing what is preached. It's
> like eating poop and losing your appetite when you find a hair in it.
>
> > I've heard people mock fat people because they
> > got a _diet_ coke with their ice cream or whatever. Well, I happen to think
> > that it's better for them to lose _some_ calories than to have the full
> > blown thing. But some think they should go without everything so that they
> > conform to some expected norm. To them I can only say "bite me!"
> It's more sad that they'd think the so-called diet product is the healthier
> choice when it's loaded with potentially harmful chemicals. Sugar isn't bad
> for you, it just needs to be taken in moderation like fat and cholesterol.
> And I do think it's odd to seriously believe that diet sodas will make a
> difference when you are overweight or obese, eat high fat/cholesterol meals
> AND don't exercise aerobically everyday.
I believe there's been a lot of coverup regarding the health effects of
aspartame that Monsanto isn't releasing. What's even scarier is that
there is a natural sweetener that looks to safer and would be able to
replace aspartame in 'diet' products. But the fda won't give approval
for use as a sweetener because of what can be percieved as corporate
interests. See www.stevia.net for details.
> I don't think it's about conformity to the expected norm but, rather,
> practical living and common sense regarding good health and maintenence.
> People are meant to be active and moving around constantly, not sitting
> around, driving cars or watching TV for hours on end. However, this is
> modern life and these are the things we do. Okay, so add a little balance by
> getting out and exercising every day and watching what you eat. Is that such
> a bad idea?
No, I don't think so.
-chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Virtues of Veganism?
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| (...) I don't know the conspiracy side of it at all, but it make head head feel like an over ripe walnut waiting to explode. I just can't drink diet bevs, etc. Mostly I drink water and whole juices, so it's not really problem, but I do occasionally (...) (23 years ago, 10-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Virtues of Veganism?
|
| (...) Heart disease (arteriosclerosis) is characterized by the blockage and hardening of arteries in the body by cholesterol. Therefore, red meat IS the main culprit because of it's rich cholesterol content. Red meat was not a big part of the (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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