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Preface: Plowed ground alert. I probably shouldn't have posted a flurry of responses, just summarised and let it go. This has been discussed before at length. That said, onward. (...) Not in and of itself. But if you had a grand scheme for a $1000 (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) It's unamerican to think that people are self interested? Or to think that nations are made up of good and bad people? Or to think that America is largely like many other countries? (...) Well, they couldn't know _how_ close it would be until (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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(...) Dolt--tell me when we wouldn't bend/break or otherwise disregard conventions where it suited our winning the war that much quicker--I direct you to the post about the two terrorists interrogated to death. "Our" side of this war might regard (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) How so? Do you mean we're not free to form a new nation, or that we're not free to move from one to the next? In some cases, the latter is certainly true, but that's just the market in action; different types of product are available, with (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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(...) Dolt. (URL) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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(...) LOike Butch and Sundance-- "Let's go over the rules before the fight..." "Rules??? There are no rules in this fight" "Okay!" upon which Butch (Paul Newman) proceeds to hoof his nemesis in the groin. End of fight. I always thought that was (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Who is comprised of people just like you and me. There is nothing magical about the Federal Government compared to any other group of concerned people. I would also point out that the government didn't do very much to stop the abuse until (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Pretty cynical. And un-American, I might add. (...) As in investing, "past performance doesn't guarantee future results";-) (...) Rigged??? Come on. How did those who "rigged" the election know it would be so close in popular vote? The idea is (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) There are sufficiently high barriers to entry (the 200+ nations collude together to prevent new entrants) that your assertion that "the market is free" is false, Dave! (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If it is being tampered with, then it isn't free. Or is that what you meant? (...) Building codes also prevent a wide array of construction techniques that are cheaper and safer because the building industry is entrenched in the code setting (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sorry, David, you were reading too fast. You missed the point. I speak of a marketplace*of* ideas themselves, a marketplace IN government systems. But be that as it may, past reading in this group will show that I don't agree that government (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Sure it does. You can't argue that we have the right of choice if there's no free market (of ideas, or of systems) to choose from, except unless you argue that we have to lump the choices, constrained as they are by the International (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) The market is plenty free--we have 200+ nations to choose from! The fact that no nation has arisen to suit the desires of every last person is irrelevant. That's the market in action. Dave! (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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(...) Iraq is a nation that must worry about the overly-enthusiastic flight of their soldiery. Anything that makes their dessertion less likely is a good idea. The more wary of taking POWs that we are, the more likely we are to shoot them instead of (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) I would surmise that "Fre Market" and "Governmental Systems" are exclusive. There has to be oversight to "Free Market" in order to maintain the safety and health of those involved in the Free Market system--hence Gov't. I live in a reasonably (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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John: This is war, boy -- there are no rules! You meet me in a street a fight and I will win. Why? Because I don't fight according to rules, I fight to win. People that have met me in real life would probably fault me for being overly polite and (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Geneva Convention on POW treatment is just another inconvenience to the Bush Regime?
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Scott: "America admits suspects died in interrogations" (URL) over here in the States, as you may recall, so I ask you: what sort of source is the Independent? My only bigger point is that we are all of us whores for our side -- no one is innocent. (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) That doesn't really address the topic at hand (and perhaps that was your intent). -->Bruce<-- (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The problem is there's no free market in governmental systems at the moment, and the present players collude to keep it that way. (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Oh, come on. An analogy is inadequate if the salient characteristic likened between the two subjects is fundamentally distinct, as in the case of a slave who cannot leave the US and a citizen who can freely expatriate (and renounce that same (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) As I said, morally you may be correct, but practically, I see no better way to proceed. It's not an ideal contract, because you are bound by your predessor's contract, not one you made for yourself. I must admit I categorically reject the (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Outrageous Iraqi Geneva Convention Violation
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(URL) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Rather than simply asserting that it is not a contract, you must demonstrate why it is not a contract. You can't just say "it's a dodge" and pretend to have refuted it. (...) The slaves who were freed (and thereafter remained in the US) (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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What are the criteria used to determine if an analogy is adequate? No analogy will be perfect because it isn't the exact situation that is being discussed. It is a tool used to point out certain particular similarities that are important to the (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Geneva Convention on POW treatment is just another inconvenience to the Bush Regime?
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(...) PoW footage 'breaks convention' [the text you cite] (URL) should not be used as part of the propaganda war between the two sides, and all warring factions should respect that, says Ms Notari, a former PoW in Somalia herself. Those rules should (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) And I pay my taxes and vote my concience. I just think it's messed up to call it a contract. It's a dodge. I'd be happier if we just enunciated the fact that we are partially or sort-of owned by the state. As long as they control our right to (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) You've got to stop using the slaves as an example, because you're hurting your argument. The slaves were forcibly removed from their homeland and forcibly kept at work here as property. They had no opportunity to renounce citizenship and leave (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Right, and the "taxes" paid by the slaves -- in the form of 100% of their productivity -- aided them as well as their fellows. They were fed, clothed, and housed without ever having to worry about those things. And in some cases, the system (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Excuse me? In many cases it was forcibly resolved by the Federal Government. (...) As was demonstrated in 2000, the will of a majority of the people is not necessarily reflected in the election process. (...) You misunderstand--brokers (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) the (...) Which resolved regardless of the the attempts to stop it. (...) So? That is why we have an election. (...) So? Who's fault is it if they lose everything gambling on the securities industry. (...) Also resolved despite efforts to the (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) This ia always an interesting quandry. The contract has always been viewed as new-generation-enforcable, but is that correct? Are you bound by your parent's contract (or as far back as necessary to either the original constitution or your (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) This is all a dodge: you stated that the left hates Bush because he is a Christian, and yet they supported a Christian for president. The evidence doesn't support your theory. (...) So was I. (...) Actually, they get what they want even if (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) What do these goods have to do with taxes? Except for the second order effect of a legal framework to protect contracts, that is. There's no reason any of these have to be government provided. You picked the wrong goods to praise government (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: And now for something completely different...
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(...) there seems to be a great deal of material here, and what I did read seemed well thought out. (URL) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Then they will discover the power of democracy. ;) Remember Bush’s "Read my lips" promise? Scott A (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Which was better? Was Re: Excellent summation of truths and falsehoods about our little war
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(...) I've only seen the former. The fact that you call it "the movie with Sting" sort of sums it up. ;) I'm sure I liked it at the time [I was 16]; but it's not stood the test of time all that well. Scott A (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) I think there's a big difference b/w the two--in your case, the services you receive via 'your tax dollar' aid you as well as your fellow man. Sure you were 'born into' the agreement, or 'moved into' the agreement when you become a citizen of (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) That is absolutely true. (...) By remaining in the country (and partaking of the benefits of government programs) you have willingingly entered the contract (or your parents entered you into the contract, which you must take up with them). (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Well, explain how it was abrogated (in legally specific terms) and then file suit. Otherwise, leave the country and renounce your US citizenship. Dave! (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Dune (was: Which was better? was: Excellent summation of truths and falsehoods about...)
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(...) mini-series? (...) The Lynch movie captured the atmosphere much, much, much better though it certainly has it's own array of faults. I couldn't finish the miniseries, I hated it so much! Really, the book is too complicated to easily convert to (...) (22 years ago, 24-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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