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(...) The situation in the Middle East is complicated. Both sides have points to be made and complaints that deserve a hearing. But there are stark differences between the two – and these differences paint a clear picture of who wears the black hat (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) so you're not saying that what I quoted was wrong, just that they were missing some info? perhaps. BTW, that attack in '53 is taught today, still, in IDF basic training as an example of an "illegal command", which a soldier is not allowed to (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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I'm with you on that Dan. jt (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: this is one of the scariest, most disturbing posts I've ever read on LUGNET. (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Naughty Words? (was: Couldn't resist bringing this to your attention(s))
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What motivates people to be offended by a word? I sincerely don't get it. Racial epithets offend me if they're being seriously issued, but it's the idea, not the word. In the example of "crap" below, it seems clear that the person is actually (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Most people might agree. Why do they need a homeland? I'm leaning toward believing that the very notion of 'homeland' is a divisive instrument. Maybe we should seek to eliminate that idea globally. (...) I think that terror is a tool (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) money, or even how many bombers were motivated by it. I really doubt it is a deciding factor when you are forced to give up land your family has lived on for generations to house economic refugees from Eastern Europe. Israel is also rewarded (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) their attack on the Jordanian village of Qibya in ‘53. The day after the attack a UN observer said that the IDF had forced civilians to stay in their homes whilst they were demolished around them. 69 civilians were killed - over half of them (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) True, but the USA is so biased that its endeavors would be seen as possibly self-interested. Trust would be better placed in a third party that is strong enough to be immune to US strongarming. best LFB (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) A little monetary incentive helps too (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Well, actually I reject the notion that desperation is not a factor in N.I. Peace is one issue, freedom is another. I am not sure I can condone a state of peace maintained at the expense of freedom and self-rule -- is one expected to be happy (...) (23 years ago, 4-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Couldn't resist bringing this to your attention(s)
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(...) I guess it depends on where you're from. 'Round here it's okay to use as a polite alternative to the other word that begins with "s" (also means feces). Sure, it's harsh critizism to call something "crap", but I don't consider it "dirty" (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | In this time of conflict, one good news
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There has been quite a discussion here about the Middle East situation, and since IMO the situation is not due to be resolved anytime soon, I thought of calling your attention to a bit of hope coming from elsewhere on Earth. Angola's civil war will (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) available, it seems so - has this also been verified in past times of conflict? (say '87-'93, for instance) Pedro (just curious, really) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Define "significant", please. 'Cause I can remember *a lot* of peaceful nations that resulted from the acceptance of their independance by a theoretically much stronger enemy, rather than its anihilation. Browse through a map of Europe and you (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) (URL) only shows the Israeli casualties though... I don't know where to find the Palestinian side. Also all these are easy to verify (cnn, ruiters), unlike some of the PA claims. Dan (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Yes indeed, but let's be realistic about it. There are people ALIVE TODAY who participated in atrocities during WWII against people who are ALIVE TODAY, so it's not like this is something we're inferring from the fossil record. For many (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) To be fair, "they" also identify such a distinction, and "them" ain't "us." I understand your point and agree with it in the abstract, but I think it's a mistake to act as if all distinctions are arbitrary, fleeting, or non-existent--even if (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I agree that desperation is what is driving _most_ of the Palestinians. However, a small number have achieved positions of power (not really Arafat, though he certainly has some power) due to their ability to lead and incite rebellion. These (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) yeah, it's not a situation that can be remedied by sound bites and bandaids.. To add a separate thread of debate -- one thing that has been bothering me as of late is the 'restitution for atrocities that happened in the past' It was wrong for (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) And this so-called power gives them what precisely? World attention? It took years for that to happen -- and even now a guy like Arafat is suspected of not having very much real power even with his own people anyway. I remain very unconvinced (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I agree that desperation is an aspect of the Palestinian mindset, however, I really feel that the core of the Palestinian resistance is not acting out of desperation. It is acting out of pure desire for power, based on a power structure which (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The value of reading (was: If you could leave any book on Kjeld's nightstand...)
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(...) Hey! My irrelevance is *always* relevant. I've noticed that Chris' grasp of statistics is stronger than mine, and sometimes his articulations on the subject can muddle my brain a bit (more). Perhaps Allan was suffering a similar verbal (...) (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The value of reading (was: If you could leave any book on Kjeld's nightstand...)
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(...) Yes, I agree with all of the above. Nevertheless it's irrelevant. My question really was to Allan, because I honestly didn't understand what it was he didn't understand about what Chris said. (...) Me too. (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The value of reading (was: If you could leave any book on Kjeld's nightstand...)
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(...) You are, of course, absolutely correct to point out the difference between correlation and causation, but it must be recalled that statistical data are routinely used by both sides in all kinds of discussions, so Allan can be forgiven for (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) In '49 the UN passed a resolution to put Jerusalem under its control. Four days later Israel moved the Knesset there. Scott A (23 years ago, 3-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I’ll admit to being a little irked by this. What has brought about “peace” in NI is the realisation that violence could only get the terrorists groups so far. The IRA (and its Loyalist counterparts) has just as little regard for “rights” (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) As far as I am aware the restaurant was actually Palestinian-Israeli owned. But that makes very little difference. It was still a very cruel act. The difference is that on the Palestinian side there is absolute desperation and some with (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) If those were two euro-cents, it would have been me saying it. ;-) I share this oppinion entirely - especially what you say regarding the Chinese stand, I think that is a pretty clever reading of the situation (but then again, China has (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Ow. Got stung by a lazy ebay seller.
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Ben: I've ordered from Auld Dragon's Lair 4 times in the past year. I always received feedback within 3 weeks. When I made my last purchase I expected feedback in a timely manner as before. I can understand if Jeff wants to wait 1 year or even 10. (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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Just some super-quick thoughts on this ongoing problem... (...) How can the U.S. send crystal clear messages about aggression when our hands are dirty in Afghanistan? (...) Short-term solutions will not work in this conflict, not that I disagree (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I believe they tried that. Oslo, and a any other agreement signed - however, agreements don't do much unless both sides do their part. As far as I know, the PA has never actually done anything that it said it would. Dan (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) AFAIK, OPEC hasn't been selling oil to Israel since the early 70s, if ever. But I don't have links, so it might just be a misconception of mine. Dan (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I wonder what the future plans of the Israeli government are. Having removed parts of the infrastructure and police force of the PA, they will probably have to put in their own resources for this function in the future. I think that this can (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Some OPEC countries want to the restrict oil production to sanction Israel and USA. If they succeed, there may be oil involved this time. I doubt it, though. Fredrik (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) This is an interesting point! However, I think that if there is one nations' government which is respected in Israel, it must be that of the US. Israel, being the strongest part in the conflict, should take the initiative and responsibility (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) I agree with some of this. The problem is that the USA has a much louder voice in this due to the $,$$$,$$$,$$$.$$ it gives to Sharon. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The value of reading (was: If you could leave any book on Kjeld's nightstand...)
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(...) I find myself disagreeing with that. I have little experience of US printed journalism, but I find the broadcast journalism to be nothing more than "infotainment". It my be a cultural thing(?). (...) Interestingly, I read a quote from "Stupid (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) But that is the very nub of this problem. Until Israel, and its apologists, realise that, there can be no hope of peace. Israel has done nothing but stall for time to gain a foothold in the various occupied territories - and that goes right (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The value of reading (was: If you could leave any book on Kjeld's nightstand...)
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(...) I get the sense this is the major point of your argument, and one that I must agree with. My previous arguments were based on *my* experience with the different media. Surely, as you imply, electronic media could be employed differently and in (...) (23 years ago, 2-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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