Subject:
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Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:43:58 GMT
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I've been accused of taking this quote out of context.
LUGNET is not a democracy.
Here are all the contexts I found this quote used. Short of providing the
entire text, I'll provide reasonable context. If more context is desired, I'll
be happy to provide all context:
http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=12027
I point the above post and this particular paragraph:
> We're getting mostly positive feedback on the new weights, on and offline, so
> far. But it should be noted that LUGNET is not a democracy, so the fact that
> we're getting mostly positive feedback is certainly good but it's not the only
> factor in the decision making process. We have the good of the site in mind
> first and foremost, not the relative level of the voices trying to tell us what
> to do.
This was from a private email from Larry, which I originally quoted from
beginning to the "LUGNET is not a democracy" comment. Now I provide the
paragraph following the quote.
Larry> My contributions to this process have been minimal, except as a
Larry> conduit for information so I'm not sure I see how you can view them
Larry> as not positive, please elaborate.
Larry>
Larry> You need to internalise that I'm the chair and figure out how to work
Larry> within that boundary. Dwelling on the past and alleged misdeeds by the
Larry> admins (especially when you don't even have all your facts straight)
Larry> when everyone else wants to work on the document itself, and on
Larry> specific things that need changing is not going to get you anywhere
Larry> with the owners of
Larry> LUGNET and with the admins.
Larry>
Larry> This is not a rubberstamp body.
Larry> LUGNET is not a democracy.
Larry>
Larry> Those two statements are not incompatible. We want input. We will very
Larry> carefully consider all input given. We will go back and forth with the
Larry> committee to make sure we understand the issues and concerns, and then
Larry> we will decide
This was from a private email from Larry, I've tried to include enough context.
If desired I'll provide the enitre text.
Kevin> I am somewhat disapointed with my discussion of power
Kevin> and control, but I still think it is true. I feel you
Kevin> and I are similar. Intelligent, assertive, and
Kevin> sometimes our emotions get the better of us. I see
Kevin> parallels in our behaviors that maybe you do not.
Maybe. Maybe a lot of us in the hobby are similar in a lot of ways. I
was talking about this with a few people and about some other
character traits, it's an interesting thing to talk about
Kevin> The topic probably would have been best discussed with
Kevin> you privately, or with you and the Admins (I
Kevin> capitalize to indicate that I have much respect for
Kevin> the administrators of lugnet.) None the less, I stand
Kevin> by my I think my assessment is still true.
Perhaps better privately but in the end a lot of good came
of it, however bumpy the journey was. At least I think it
will turn out really good. I've been going around telling
people it's a new day for LUGNET, actually...
Kevin> You asked for reasoned arguments, and I provided
Kevin> them.
Kevin> They were labeled as irrelevent.
You being all of us admins. I think Lenny didn' treally mean
what he said the way it came out. again, this oscillation is to
blame I think. We did and do want input about what to do
but we don't want to debate individual actions in the heat
of the moment as it's just not good.
LUGNET is not a democracy with a court of public opinion...
(apropos of that, the poll Rosco is running has, in my view,
the potential to turn out insanely destructive, I hope you'll be
willing to be a voice of reason when the results come out,
whatever they are)
Kevin> Don't bother to ask
Kevin> if you don't really care what they say.
I care. I wanted the input. I personally wanted it very much.
You are a well respected member of the community with a reputation
for reasonableness and insight, so your input is very very important
to us all . There is a difference between asking for input, and debating
it over and over. We wanted your input, and we really appreciate
that you got it to us. But At a certain level, we are damned if we do and
damned if we don't, now, as far as explaining or justifying our individual
actions, so we are going to try to avoid detailed debates about individual
actions if we can, they are divisive. That said, every member has a right to
expect a fair and just administration to the best of our ability, and a right
to expect that we are held to the very highest standards whether we are
wearing our hats or not. In particular I would point the finger at myself, I
have not been upholding those standards as well as I should. I regret that
and I have taken a solemn vow to endeavour to do better.
Kevin> I absolutely believe that you will. It was a very
Kevin> tough situation, and you had very good justification
Kevin> for being upset, and hurt. I know I would have been
Kevin> equally or more hurt and upset, and not sure I could
Kevin> have maintained the level of composure than you did.
Kevin> It is very difficult to maintain composure with that
Kevin> much hurt. Believe me. I know all too well.
Larry> Well thanks for telling me I did OK-ish ... and for telling me I could
Larry> hvae done better. I think both are true-ish... As to what you wold
Larry> have done, you're not an admin, you could be excused more easliy than
Larry> me, we have to hold ourselves to higher standards, hat on or off.
I hope that this provides complete enough context.
Kevin
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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| I have been around LUGNET since the beginning. I don't really post much, hell, I don't think I've posted in over a year. But I do have an opinion on this subject..and here it is (probably ban worthy...but who cares, all the infighting here makes it (...) (19 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !!
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