Subject:
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Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:49:05 GMT
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In lugnet.admin.general, Tom Duggan wrote:
> I have been around LUGNET since the beginning. I don't really post much, hell,
> I don't think I've posted in over a year. But I do have an opinion on this
> subject..and here it is (probably ban worthy...but who cares, all the infighting
> here makes it a great place to read, but posting is difficult, since I would
> have to "be nice" to the people here that piss me off)
>
> I have had a few run ins with Larry on the NELUG mailing list, and have had
> discussions with others who have had run ins with him as well, and we have come
> to this conclusion...Larry is an ass, will always be an ass...and for some
> strange reason, I think he REALLY enjoys being an ass.
> I always hear how he's different in real life, how much he brings to the
> community, how he is misunderstood online..blah..blah..blah
> Let's put it all on the table and call a spade a spade..Larry looks at himself
> as the King of all things LEGO, thinks the community revolves around his
> opinion, and believes that LUGNET would collapse unless he is here to save it.
> Why else would he be a member of any LTC or LUG that will let him? Why else
> does he have the highest post count on any forum he belongs to? What's he a
> member of EVERY LEGO forum out there?
> I swear he must have a family of migrant workers in his employ just to read his
> e-mails.
> I have never met anyone who enjoys giving his opinion on any subject...no matter
> what it might be, 99% of the time without being asked his opinion.
> Putting Larry on the LUGNET admin team...hell any admin team is like putting
> Bill Clinton in charge of a secretary convention...it's just not a good idea!
> They say power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely....well, we have
> seen the trouble with the little power that he has been given, and I have a
> feeling that in a few years, if things keep going the way they are, we will be
> posting on LARNET rather then LUGNET!
> Is this a personal attack on Larry? You bet it is...but it is my opinion, and I
> am sticking to it! And that's the problem here at LUGNET...anyone who has an
> opinion,that someone else doesn't like is usually "asked" to change it...and by
> asked I mean "threatened". But like I said...I have nothing to lose, since I
> hardly post here, and I will not request this be deleted no matter how much I am
> "asked"
>
>
> Tom D
Just to let you know, this feeling is not limited to NELUG. In fact it is an
international concern. If Larry were not an admin I wouldn't care, but he *is*
and admin and therefore it affects LUGNET significantly.
Unfortunatly there is no official procedure or forum where it is safe to express
these concerns. Fortunatly the LTT has shown some grace and no suspended me *so
far*, which seems very wise in this case, and I am grateful for such wisdom.
Notice though that the question has been raised by none other than Larry (not
Ross, as Larry has spun things around.)
The proposed P&P not only fails to provide a process, procedure or forum for
expressing such concerns, in fact it states that such feedback will have no
effect on the staffing of the Admin positions. That stance guarantees that
those in power stay in power, unless the other members of the Admin team agree
unanimously that there is a problem.
Given the current make up of the LTT (who've usurped the role as Admin), I
forsee that the the problem you pointed out will never get fixed, that LUGNET
will suffer, and that people like you and I who try to speak to our perception
of the problem will be blamed. This is what is currently happening, and at this
point I've given up hope that it will.
I have much respect for Kelly, his administration, and his diplomacy skills, but
it is hard to know if he can be swayed. He seems very open to all input on the
P&P document, which is a refreshing change of pace. He wrote the original
draft, which I have stated before, is a good document in many ways, but he
supports the unanimous vote by Admins as the only way of removing and Admin from
their position (I say this because the Admin team has stated that they like to
come to group consensus before taking action). He also then supports the
concept that feedback like ours, or votes by the membership has no bearing on
the staffing of Admin positions, which is also stated in the proposed P&P.
These positions do not lower my respect level for Kelly, but they do
dramatically reduce my hope for the future of LUGNET (based on the current
staffing situation.)
One concept that I tried to talk about that was lacking in the P&P was member's
rights. There is little in the P&P or the ToU that talks about member's rights.
Larry has told me that the respect level of me on the Admin team is so low, that
such concepts will not be heard when stated by me. I'll happily provide direct
quote in complete context. Reason enough to resign. Unfortunate though,
because that is a fundamental concept neccessary for LUGNET to return to what it
once was.
I believe that Larry and Lenny violated Chris' rights, and that Chris violated
Larry's rights. In attempts to talk about Larry and Lenny's violations,
complicated by the fact that there *is* no prescribed place to object/complain
about Admin's edjudication implementations, I have violated Lenny and Larry's
member rights, by complaining about their policing techniques.
If there was an official forum where we could register complaints about Admins,
not members, then it would be clearer when comments are personal attacks of
members, vs. complaints about admins heavy haded policing, or perceived abuses
of power. It would provide a place where members could speak their minds about
Admin's and not have to live in fear of threats of suspension (my perception due
to this post http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=12797).
Any statements that are negative about Larry, are now being labeled as slurs, in
an attempt to misdirect the input and accuse the provider.
Many people have voiced opinions similar to yours in many different ways in this
forum. I just hope that it can carry some weight.
I will state it again. I believe that Larry has much positive to contribute to
LUGNET, but that he has weaknesses in his displomacy skills that seriosly limit
his application of the ToU in ways that are healthy for the LUGNET community.
Kevin
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Message has 4 Replies:
 | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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| (...) I think it is outrageous to completely ignore someone's input because you don't like them. Larry has told me that I am a "button pusher" and that my "opinion carries less and less weight with [him] over time" Disagree with the admins once, and (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX) !
| | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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| (...) I missed the significance of this on the first reading, but it got me thinking: Eventually, I assume the LUGNET Transition Team is going to hand over control to some other governing body once it gets sorted what the future for LUGNET is going (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
| | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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| (...) That's mostly accurate, I would add "or one or more site owner(s) remove a staff member from their position." The reason it's stated in such a way stems from the current structure of LUGNET ownership... Todd and Suzanne are the owners of (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
|
| I have been around LUGNET since the beginning. I don't really post much, hell, I don't think I've posted in over a year. But I do have an opinion on this subject..and here it is (probably ban worthy...but who cares, all the infighting here makes it (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !!
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