Subject:
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Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Sun, 24 Apr 2005 04:37:44 GMT
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I have been around LUGNET since the beginning. I don't really post much, hell,
I don't think I've posted in over a year. But I do have an opinion on this
subject..and here it is (probably ban worthy...but who cares, all the infighting
here makes it a great place to read, but posting is difficult, since I would
have to "be nice" to the people here that piss me off)
I have had a few run ins with Larry on the NELUG mailing list, and have had
discussions with others who have had run ins with him as well, and we have come
to this conclusion...Larry is an ass, will always be an ass...and for some
strange reason, I think he REALLY enjoys being an ass.
I always hear how he's different in real life, how much he brings to the
community, how he is misunderstood online..blah..blah..blah
Let's put it all on the table and call a spade a spade..Larry looks at himself
as the King of all things LEGO, thinks the community revolves around his
opinion, and believes that LUGNET would collapse unless he is here to save it.
Why else would he be a member of any LTC or LUG that will let him? Why else
does he have the highest post count on any forum he belongs to? What's he a
member of EVERY LEGO forum out there?
I swear he must have a family of migrant workers in his employ just to read his
e-mails.
I have never met anyone who enjoys giving his opinion on any subject...no matter
what it might be, 99% of the time without being asked his opinion.
Putting Larry on the LUGNET admin team...hell any admin team is like putting
Bill Clinton in charge of a secretary convention...it's just not a good idea!
They say power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely....well, we have
seen the trouble with the little power that he has been given, and I have a
feeling that in a few years, if things keep going the way they are, we will be
posting on LARNET rather then LUGNET!
Is this a personal attack on Larry? You bet it is...but it is my opinion, and I
am sticking to it! And that's the problem here at LUGNET...anyone who has an
opinion,that someone else doesn't like is usually "asked" to change it...and by
asked I mean "threatened". But like I said...I have nothing to lose, since I
hardly post here, and I will not request this be deleted no matter how much I am
"asked"
Tom D
In lugnet.admin.general, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> I've been accused of taking this quote out of context.
>
> LUGNET is not a democracy.
>
> Here are all the contexts I found this quote used. Short of providing the
> entire text, I'll provide reasonable context. If more context is desired, I'll
> be happy to provide all context:
>
> http://news.lugnet.com/admin/general/?n=12027
>
> I point the above post and this particular paragraph:
>
> > We're getting mostly positive feedback on the new weights, on and offline, so
> > far. But it should be noted that LUGNET is not a democracy, so the fact that
> > we're getting mostly positive feedback is certainly good but it's not the only
> > factor in the decision making process. We have the good of the site in mind
> > first and foremost, not the relative level of the voices trying to tell us what
> > to do.
>
> This was from a private email from Larry, which I originally quoted from
> beginning to the "LUGNET is not a democracy" comment. Now I provide the
> paragraph following the quote.
>
>
> Larry> My contributions to this process have been minimal, except as a
> Larry> conduit for information so I'm not sure I see how you can view them
> Larry> as not positive, please elaborate.
> Larry>
> Larry> You need to internalise that I'm the chair and figure out how to work
> Larry> within that boundary. Dwelling on the past and alleged misdeeds by the
> Larry> admins (especially when you don't even have all your facts straight)
> Larry> when everyone else wants to work on the document itself, and on
> Larry> specific things that need changing is not going to get you anywhere
> Larry> with the owners of
> Larry> LUGNET and with the admins.
> Larry>
> Larry> This is not a rubberstamp body.
> Larry> LUGNET is not a democracy.
> Larry>
> Larry> Those two statements are not incompatible. We want input. We will very
> Larry> carefully consider all input given. We will go back and forth with the
> Larry> committee to make sure we understand the issues and concerns, and then
> Larry> we will decide
>
> This was from a private email from Larry, I've tried to include enough context.
> If desired I'll provide the enitre text.
>
> Kevin> I am somewhat disapointed with my discussion of power
> Kevin> and control, but I still think it is true. I feel you
> Kevin> and I are similar. Intelligent, assertive, and
> Kevin> sometimes our emotions get the better of us. I see
> Kevin> parallels in our behaviors that maybe you do not.
>
> Maybe. Maybe a lot of us in the hobby are similar in a lot of ways. I
> was talking about this with a few people and about some other
> character traits, it's an interesting thing to talk about
>
> Kevin> The topic probably would have been best discussed with
> Kevin> you privately, or with you and the Admins (I
> Kevin> capitalize to indicate that I have much respect for
> Kevin> the administrators of lugnet.) None the less, I stand
> Kevin> by my I think my assessment is still true.
>
> Perhaps better privately but in the end a lot of good came
> of it, however bumpy the journey was. At least I think it
> will turn out really good. I've been going around telling
> people it's a new day for LUGNET, actually...
>
> Kevin> You asked for reasoned arguments, and I provided
> Kevin> them.
> Kevin> They were labeled as irrelevent.
>
> You being all of us admins. I think Lenny didn' treally mean
> what he said the way it came out. again, this oscillation is to
> blame I think. We did and do want input about what to do
> but we don't want to debate individual actions in the heat
> of the moment as it's just not good.
>
> LUGNET is not a democracy with a court of public opinion...
>
> (apropos of that, the poll Rosco is running has, in my view,
> the potential to turn out insanely destructive, I hope you'll be
> willing to be a voice of reason when the results come out,
> whatever they are)
>
> Kevin> Don't bother to ask
> Kevin> if you don't really care what they say.
>
> I care. I wanted the input. I personally wanted it very much.
> You are a well respected member of the community with a reputation
> for reasonableness and insight, so your input is very very important
> to us all . There is a difference between asking for input, and debating
> it over and over. We wanted your input, and we really appreciate
> that you got it to us. But At a certain level, we are damned if we do and
> damned if we don't, now, as far as explaining or justifying our individual
> actions, so we are going to try to avoid detailed debates about individual
> actions if we can, they are divisive. That said, every member has a right to
> expect a fair and just administration to the best of our ability, and a right
> to expect that we are held to the very highest standards whether we are
> wearing our hats or not. In particular I would point the finger at myself, I
> have not been upholding those standards as well as I should. I regret that
> and I have taken a solemn vow to endeavour to do better.
>
> Kevin> I absolutely believe that you will. It was a very
> Kevin> tough situation, and you had very good justification
> Kevin> for being upset, and hurt. I know I would have been
> Kevin> equally or more hurt and upset, and not sure I could
> Kevin> have maintained the level of composure than you did.
> Kevin> It is very difficult to maintain composure with that
> Kevin> much hurt. Believe me. I know all too well.
>
> Larry> Well thanks for telling me I did OK-ish ... and for telling me I could
> Larry> hvae done better. I think both are true-ish... As to what you wold
> Larry> have done, you're not an admin, you could be excused more easliy than
> Larry> me, we have to hold ourselves to higher standards, hat on or off.
>
> I hope that this provides complete enough context.
>
> Kevin
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Message has 5 Replies:
 | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
|
| (...) Just to let you know, this feeling is not limited to NELUG. In fact it is an international concern. If Larry were not an admin I wouldn't care, but he *is* and admin and therefore it affects LUGNET significantly. Unfortunatly there is no (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !
| | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
|
| (...) ...and that is why he will not stand down even when it is the right thing to do... he is here for our good! lol. His nefarious activities are good for us! IMO, it is time the other admins had a quiet word with him. (...) Don't be a fool. It is (...) (20 years ago, 25-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
| | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
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| In lugnet.admin.general, Tom Duggan wrote: snip (...) Yet another good reason to tighten our borders! I am sure there are plenty of US citizens that could fill those jobs but they would want more money and benefits(1) ;) (1) And probably would want (...) (20 years ago, 25-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general, FTX)
| | | Re: Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
|
| (...) Hello, I don't post much neither and been here a long time (#98)! But HUMMMM what a debate!!!! I would like to interject my point of vew about people and LUGNET. When I became a member and made a $100 contribution for LUGNET, it was because it (...) (20 years ago, 30-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Context: LUGNET is not a democracy
|
| I've been accused of taking this quote out of context. LUGNET is not a democracy. Here are all the contexts I found this quote used. Short of providing the entire text, I'll provide reasonable context. If more context is desired, I'll be happy to (...) (20 years ago, 23-Apr-05, to lugnet.admin.general) !
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