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!!!!!! warning long pent up rant !!!!!!!!!
In lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto, Kelly McKiernan wrote:
> > > > then what dave? sure 90% of my stuff goes away, but what about the 10% of
> > > > USEFUL stuff that was actually good.
> > > >
> > > > Prove to me that the "system" has checks and balances to prevent that abuse.
> > > >
> > > > my point. IT DOSEN'T
Kelly, Good morning. I don't think we have formally met. Nice to meet you.
Please excuse any and all poor typo-s and bad spelling. Even thought I type
like a 12 year old, rest assure I am not.
With that out of the way, I feel i need to leave the safety of RTL and start to
voice my concerns about this direction i see lugnet going.
> Chris,
>
> To my knowledge, this portion of the discussion is not a problem, and I don't
> believe there has been anything called out that you or Dave have written to
> cause a timeout. (Although the language is starting to get tinged with blue,
> please keep an eye on it.)
BAM !!!
Problem 1.
what language? who the hell are you and the rest of the admins to decide what is
acceptable?
I don't want to hear you say "society" decides, cause thats bullshit.
there. I said it.
we can travel ALL OVER the US and the rest of Canada, AND the world and find
just as many places that will accept that "language" as many times as well will
find places that that language is unacceptable
now I am not a moron. I'm fairley well educated. My grasp of the spoken word is
adaquate, and I don't claim to be an orator(sp?) for censorship. but If I want
to use the above word then I will. and whos to say its wrong? YOU? Larry? the
rest of the (to me) unknow's who "apear" to sit on high and judge?
I Do NOT envey your position. you (not YOU, but admin) have to walk a VERY fine
line.
how do you keep freedom of speech, yet still make this place safe for "all"
i don't claim to have all the answers.
BUT what i am NOT seeing is guilelines.
CLEAR non-lawyer-speak PLAIN ENGLISH guidlines.
I've given up that this is "todd's" place. i now know that LUGNET is YOURS.
(the admins)
so as such, show me the rules.
DON'T bother pointing me to the TOS. that document is harder to read than the
mortgage agreement i signed to buy my house.
> There have been flagrant ToS violations elsewhere
> that are being dealt with.
if you (again, and from now on, when i say you i refer to the admins)
if you feel these abuses are happening, AND DON'T LIKE THEM, then don't
pussyfoot around!!! just use your almighty power and cancel the post. OR set up
scripts to auto edit out the foul language. THEN and only then will you get the
lugnet you want. CAUSE after the "baddies" get fed up with not being able to
express themselves you'll have just the folks you want.
explain to me as if i was a small child, and tell me what the differance is
between just canceling a post that you don't like, AND blackmailing someone in a
private e-mail to submit a request to cancel or the concequeence will be a time
out ???
> We've discussed "public" vs "private" notification of timeouts. This is a valid
> concern. Initially we decided upon private because a timeout was a chance to
> give somebody a chance to reconsider an offensive post or set of posts. It
> wasn't meant as public chastisement.
it does not matter weather the notification of blackmail is public OR private,
the end result is the same.
I have no clear idea if THIS post is a violation of the TOS. thats not sarcasm,
its the truth.
if I posted this in .general. MAYBE BS is a bad thing? if i said BS in RTL then
~I~ am ok with it. can i say BS in .admin? where can i find a list of what is
acceptable and what is NOT.
and not some "TOS guidlines" that and lawyer can drive a truck through. hard and
fast rules.
1. cant say "the seven words" in .general
2. CAN say BS in RTL
3. OK to mock calum .foo, CANT mock him in .general
I don't want to make the list.
and I'm not TELLING you to make the list.
but even ~I~ am not sure what is appropriate when and where.
> In light of the concerns voiced here, maybe it's time to revisit that. Is a
> public punishment that's out in the open preferable to a private period of
> "quiet time"? If you (generic you, not necessarily Chris or Dave) were, in the
> heat of the moment, contemplating posting something that would result in
> temporary loss of posting privileges, would a public pronouncement of your
> timeout be sufficient to cause you to rethink and rewrite the post?
again. there is a bigger picture here. When I deliberate choose to stir the
pot, I started off small, (public v private timeouts) but it was/is building to
THIS!!
> The last thing I think anybody wants is a perception that LUGNET administrators
> sit in a star chamber somewhere, scanning posts for ToS infringement, fingers
> poised over a big red button.
THATS exactly the way i see things. you hit the nail on the head.
AND I'll be blunt. (sorry larry)
BUT in private communications what Larry, both in e-mail, VOICE, and on line
(AND ANECDOTALLY(sp?) WITH OTHERS) I cant help but repeatedly feel that lugnet
is now the admins private playground and "we" are but mere guest.
thats NOT the lugnet i signed up for.
> We're just trying to keep up, and keep the place
> civil.
Kelly, I have heard nothing but nice things about you. as I have said before, i
DON'T envy your position. BUT when you and the others said YES to accepting the
sword of power, then also said yes to trying to appease the mass's from ALL this
crap.
my last note to all admins is this.
I will NOT cancel this post.
I will NOT re-write it without the "profanity."
I will NOT respond to any private or PUBLIC threat of timeout.
if you feel that i have violated the TOS then do what you feel you have to do.
I make no qualms about my understanding that i will become a martyr for this
issue.
IF i get banned, or timed out, my wish is that everyone who feels just as
passionately about this as I do, reply to this with ONE WORD tos violations.
are you prepared to BAN that many people??
cause i am prepared to walk away from lugnet the second this place becomes the
"forced happy fun place" i see it becoming.
Chris Magno
Lugnet member # 91
RTL Toronto founder
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