Subject:
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Israel and the Palestinians ( WasRe: When is a website "independent" and when is it "part of"?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:21:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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580 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> I did not really intend this to be a Palestinian V Israeli debate, that always
> ends in looking levels of wrongness. However, if the current leader in Iraq or
> the former leader of serbia were to use the same methods - how would that be
> treated internationally? I wonder?
Are you comparing Barak, a democratically elected leader of a democratic state
that tolerates dissent and has a free press and the rule of law, and
mechanisms to carry out investigations of wrongdoing and a justice system that
administers justice fairly, and all that it implies... are you comparing Barak
with Sadam Hussein or Milosevich, or with any other random dictator?
I'm just asking here, because if you are, if you really don't think there's
any difference here, then you're more clueless than I thought. (surprising, I
know, I already think you're pretty clueless, but I may have actually
underestimated that level of cluelessness on your part)
And if you aren't, what is your point exactly?
Look. I'm one of the people that thinks that setting up Israel was a bad *bad*
BAD idea in the first place. I'm one of the people that thinks that the entire
mideast mess is more the fault of the UK than of anyone else. I'm not by any
means an Israeli sympathiser. Israel was forced into existance where it should
not have been, there is NO race or group or ethnicity that has a clear cut
claim on Palestine or on any particular part of the territory, and
partitioning Palestine was the biggest mistake those Fleet Street (or wherever
the foreign ministry bozos sat at the time) losers ever made. Bigger than
India and Pakistan, even.
Palestine should never have been partitioned. No amount of subdividing will
work, no amount of carving off pieces of land will satisfy one group or the
other. All of Palestine should have been ruled by a coalition goverment
composed of all ethnicities and the UN should have forced all ethnicities to
come to some accomodation, using a secular government that favored no religion.
BUT, what's done is done. Palestine WAS partitioned by those UK bozos into a
Palestinian state and a Jewish state. The Palestinian state, Jordan, is not
exactly democratic, not exactly free, but it's better than Syria or any of a
half dozen other arab states near it (who repress Palestinians almost as badly
as they repress Jews and Christians). Israel is a democratic country with a
rule of law and it is far better to be an Muslim in Israel than it is to be a
Jew in any Arab country you'd care to name, even Jordan, or even in Arafat
administered territory.
What has happened of late, on the israeli side, if it involves excessive use
of force, will be investigated and dealt with. Can you say the same for the
Hezbollah? They're not going to investigate the use of excessive force! Heck
no, they consider any use of force to be not quite enough. Can you say the
same for Arafat's thugs in police uniforms? I don't think so.
So drop the line that says that Israel is some sort of bad guy in this latest,
it won't wash. The bad guy is the US for forcing Israel to negotiate with
terrorists and thugs. Do you normally negotiate with your assailant and tell
them that it's OK to carve off your finger and your ear but would they mind
not carving out your heart? Seems laugable, doesn't it?
Israel has gotten, and continues to get, a raw deal in the world media, I have
no idea why.
Having said all that I say again, Israel has no right to exist, it was imposed
on the region, but you can't unmake an omlette, especially by shooting the
diners.
++Lar
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Message has 6 Replies:
 | | Re: Israel and the Palestinians
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| Larry, I think you overestimate the Israeli's "rule of law". Sitting here on the other side of the world, that looks like the weak link. I've always had canny admiration for their prowess, but there's a little bit of thug on their side too. In the (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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