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What color is the Statue of Liberty?
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In lugnet.general, Eric Brok writes:
> What color is the Statue of Liberty?
It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered copper.
Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts enough to
make a copper roof.
eric
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Lorbaat wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Eric Brok writes:
> > What color is the Statue of Liberty?
>
> It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered copper.
> Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts enough to
> make a copper roof.
>
> eric
The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). But that
might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this color.
Say....... Antique Green, or???
Gary Istok
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> > It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered copper.
> > Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts enough to
> > make a copper roof.
>
> The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). But that
> might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this color.
> Say....... Antique Green, or???
Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
i'll never remember it :)
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In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> i'll never remember it :)
Verdigris is a lot to try and remember, but Copper Green is counter intuitive
(IMHO) because copper isn't usually green...
Actually, what I really want is proof that this "new" green is, in fact,
completely new, and not a light green that's appeared in a Scala or Belleville
set before. Then I'll worry about what to call it. :D
eric
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In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> > The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS". But that might be a
> > mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this color.
> > Say....... Antique Green, or???
>
> Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> i'll never remember it :)
How about Sea Green?
Dave!
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
>
> > > The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS". But that might be a
> > > mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this color.
> > > Say....... Antique Green, or???
> >
> > Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> > i'll never remember it :)
>
> How about Sea Green?
Or Grey-Green? That's the literal translation of "verdigris", after all
(though the etymology is actually supposedly a corruption of the words for
"green brass").
Doug
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Lorbaat writes:
> In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
>
> > Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> > i'll never remember it :)
>
> Verdigris is a lot to try and remember, but Copper Green is
> counter intuitive (IMHO) because copper isn't usually green...
I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
remember.
--Bram
Bram Lambrecht
BXL34@po.cwru.edu
http://home.cwru.edu/~bxl34/
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It's new, trust me. If you've seen it in person, you KNOW it's new.
Lorbaat wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
>
> > Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> > i'll never remember it :)
>
> Verdigris is a lot to try and remember, but Copper Green is counter intuitive
> (IMHO) because copper isn't usually green...
>
> Actually, what I really want is proof that this "new" green is, in fact,
> completely new, and not a light green that's appeared in a Scala or Belleville
> set before. Then I'll worry about what to call it. :D
>
> eric
--
Tom Stangl
***http://www.vfaq.com/
***DSM Visual FAQ home
***http://ba.dsm.org/
***SF Bay Area DSMs
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In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> remember.
> --Bram
I speak French, I am pretty sure the word isn't originally French. My guess
would be Italian. Also I believe the spelling is: verdegris. I may be wrong.
Kev Z
142
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seems french to me, and spelled correctly too:
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=verdigris
Verdegris turns up this:
No entry found for "verdegris" in the dictionary.
:)
Kevin Zwicker wrote:
>
> In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
>
> > I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> > green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> > remember.
> > --Bram
>
> I speak French, I am pretty sure the word isn't originally French. My guess
> would be Italian. Also I believe the spelling is: verdegris. I may be wrong.
>
> Kev Z
> 142
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Hi,
Oops, my mistake. Excuse me a moment. <Removes foot from mouth>
That's better. I guess I don't speak french as well as I think ;-)
In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> seems french to me, and spelled correctly too:
>
> http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=verdigris
>
> Verdegris turns up this:
>
> No entry found for "verdegris" in the dictionary.
>
> :)
>
> Kevin Zwicker wrote:
> >
> > In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> >
> > > I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> > > green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> > > remember.
> > > --Bram
> >
> > I speak French, I am pretty sure the word isn't originally French. My guess
> > would be Italian. Also I believe the spelling is: verdegris. I may be wrong.
> >
> > Kev Z
> > 142
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I like Gary's suggestion. "Antique" suggests the weathered copper, and eliminates
the confusion by having the color "copper" in the description (ie "copper green") of
a basically green element. "Sea green" is okay, too, but I think "antique green" is
most apropos.
-John
Gary Istok wrote:
> Lorbaat wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.general, Eric Brok writes:
> > > What color is the Statue of Liberty?
> >
> > It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered copper.
> > Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts enough to
> > make a copper roof.
> >
> > eric
>
> The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). But that
> might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this color.
> Say....... Antique Green, or???
>
> Gary Istok
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I checked my french-english dictionary (it's only a pocket one, so it's
not very complete) and neither
word was in the french side... (my guess is that this is only *derived*
from french)
the translation from english Verdigris to french is vertdegris
close though :)
ps: i don't know why i have a french-english dictionary... or a russian
or a german one... huh.
> Oops, my mistake. Excuse me a moment. <Removes foot from mouth>
> That's better. I guess I don't speak french as well as I think ;-)
>
> In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> > seems french to me, and spelled correctly too:
> >
> > http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=verdigris
> >
> > Verdegris turns up this:
> >
> > No entry found for "verdegris" in the dictionary.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Kevin Zwicker wrote:
> > >
> > > In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> > >
> > > > I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> > > > green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> > > > remember.
> > > > --Bram
> > >
> > > I speak French, I am pretty sure the word isn't originally French. My guess
> > > would be Italian. Also I believe the spelling is: verdegris. I may be wrong.
> > >
> > > Kev Z
> > > 142
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In lugnet.lego.direct, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> i'll never remember it :)
Once people use it, you will. I vote for verdigris as well. Failing that I
would prefer gray-green rather than antique or copper green.
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In lugnet.general, John Neal writes:
> I like Gary's suggestion. "Antique" suggests the weathered copper, and • eliminates
> the confusion by having the color "copper" in the description (ie "copper • green") of
> a basically green element. "Sea green" is okay, too, but I think "antique • green" is
> most apropos.
>
> -John
>
> Gary Istok wrote:
> > The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). But • that
> > might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this • color.
> > Say....... Antique Green, or???
> >
> > Gary Istok
I've suggested "Liberty Green" before. It's both very easy to remember, and
descriptive as well because it associates the colour with the set it first
appeared in. (Here's hoping it will appear in other sets as well!)
--
David Schilling
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In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
> seems french to me, and spelled correctly too:
>
> http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=verdigris
>
> Verdegris turns up this:
>
> No entry found for "verdegris" in the dictionary.
Spelled correctly, as you point out, dictionary.com reveals this:
[Middle English vertegrez, from Old French verte grez, alteration of vert-de-
Grice: verd, green; see verdure + de, of (from Latin d); see de- + Grice,
Greece.]
"Verde" in Spanish, of course, is "green," and "gris" is grey, by the way.
Dave!
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In lugnet.general, Tom Stangl writes:
> [The new green is] new, trust me. If you've seen it in person, you KNOW it's
> new.
I believe you! The sad part is, judging from how they devolved the design
of the minifig scuplture, the Statue of Liberty set will probably be a
rectangular stack of 2x2 bricks.
Dave!
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I vote for 'verdigris' as well. If there is already a word or phrase for
something, why make up another word or phrase.
eric
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Once people use it, you will. I vote for verdigris as well. Failing that I
> would prefer gray-green rather than antique or copper green.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Harshbarger / eric@ericharshbarger.org / www.ericharshbarger.org
"Oh please, if people are going to start telling the truth around
here... I'm going to bed." - Jackie-O (Parker Posey, THE HOUSE OF YES)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler writes:
> Spelled correctly, as you point out, dictionary.com reveals this:
>
> [Middle English vertegrez, from Old French verte grez, alteration of vert-de-
> Grice: verd, green; see verdure + de, of (from Latin d); see de- + Grice,
> Greece.]
>
> "Verde" in Spanish, of course, is "green," and "gris" is grey, by the way.
The "green brass" etymology I mentioned before can be found at
http://ftp.gts.cz/kam/FTP/pub/gnu/packages/dictionary/cide.v
Ver"di*gris n. [F. vert-de-gris, apparently from verd, vert, green + de of +
gris gray, but really a corruption of LL. viride aeris (equivalent to L.
aerugo), from L. viridis green + aes, aeris, brass.
How could anyone not remember the name after this discussion? :-)
Doug
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In lugnet.general, Eric Harshbarger writes:
>
> I vote for 'verdigris' as well. If there is already a word or phrase for
> something, why make up another word or phrase.
I have to say I feel the same way.
(the other) eric
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In lugnet.general, Gary Istok writes:
>
> Lorbaat wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.general, Eric Brok writes:
> > > What color is the Statue of Liberty?
> >
> > It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered • copper.
> > Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts • enough to
> > make a copper roof.
>
> The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). But • that
> might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for this • color.
> Say....... Antique Green, or???
I think of lava soap when I see it. Therefore, I'll always
think of it as Lava Soap Green.
best
LFB
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Technically, I think verdigris would be the best. However, if someone who
didn't know the etymology of the term read a description stating that a 1x2
brick was "verdigris", they would have no clue as to what color the brick
was unless they had *seen* that color before. The beauty of "antique green"
is that it is a much more "user friendly" description, IMO
-John
Lorbaat wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Eric Harshbarger writes:
> >
> > I vote for 'verdigris' as well. If there is already a word or phrase for
> > something, why make up another word or phrase.
>
> I have to say I feel the same way.
>
> (the other) eric
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In lugnet.general, David Schilling wrote:
> I've suggested "Liberty Green" before. It's both very easy to remember, and
> descriptive as well because it associates the colour with the set it first
> appeared in. (Here's hoping it will appear in other sets as well!)
"Liberty Green" seems kinda US-centric to me. If this is the only set this
color is used in, it won't matter, but if verdigris starts popping up in
other themes, it would matter.
Steve
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Steve Bliss wrote:
<snip>
> "Liberty Green" seems kinda US-centric to me.
Yeah, so what's your point? <g,d,r>
-John
>
>
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In lugnet.general, John Neal writes:
>
>
> Steve Bliss wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > "Liberty Green" seems kinda US-centric to me.
>
> Yeah, so what's your point? <g,d,r>
>
> -John
I'm Canadian, and I still think it's a good name. The statue that the model
is made of is known around the world, (and wasn't it in fact built in France
anyway?) It represents freedom, which we will have at least a little more of
with the new colour - as far as making our creations goes, anyway. And
hopefully this is just the first of a whole string of new colours. In fact,
wouldn't it be cool to get a large assortment of bricks in one new colour each
year? In which case, Liberty Green would represent the start of a whole new
world, which is just what the statue meant to several generations of people
that left the 'old' world, to come to America, their 'new' world. I'm all for
a new world of LEGO colours!
Finally, if you hold a brick of the new colour up to weathered copper, you
will see that it isn't an exact match anyway. (Though close enough as far as
LEGO colours go - here's hoping that they'll make a lot more colours that
aren't as 'pure'.)
--
David Schilling
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As copper weathers, it gains a patina. This is what gives the copper the
green color. I would suggest 'patina green' as the name we use for the
color.
Build On!
John Matthews
Gary Istok <gistok@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:39EF0AF1.C12869D8@umich.edu...
>
>
> Lorbaat wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.general, Eric Brok writes:
> > > What color is the Statue of Liberty?
> >
> > It's a new color, a light green that is supposed to look like weathered • copper.
> > Personally, I plan to get at least one copy to see if there are parts • enough to
> > make a copper roof.
> >
> > eric
>
> The name for a weathered copper color is "VERDIGRIS" (verd-dig-gris). • But that
> might be a mouthful. We should come up with a universal Lego name for • this color.
> Say....... Antique Green, or???
>
> Gary Istok
>
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In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
simple like "Dull Green."
greg
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In lugnet.general, Greg Majewski writes:
>
> Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
> and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> simple like "Dull Green."
I was thinking along those lines too, but I think 'Liberty Green', due to the
uniqueness of the Statue and the uniqueness (up to this point) of the set.
We may never see these colour bricks elsewhere, though I hope we do.
pete.w
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In lugnet.general, Greg Majewski writes:
> Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
> and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> simple like "Dull Green."
> greg
I think keeping it simple like the rest of the color names is good. Here's a
few more - faded green or weathered green.
I wonder what TLC is calling it? I mean besides NEW :-)
Julie
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In lugnet.general, David Schilling writes:
> > > "Liberty Green" seems kinda US-centric to me.
> ... It represents freedom, ...
Well, since we are in picky word mode here, I thought I might point out the
subtle, but important differences between liberty and freedom. Both quotes
are taken from dictionary.com's definitions of liberty and freedom.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Usage: Liberty, Freedom. These words, though often interchanged, are distinct
in some of their applications. Liberty has reference to previous restraint;
freedom, to the simple, unrepressed exercise of our powers. A slave is set at
liberty; his master had always been in a state of freedom. A prisoner under
trial may ask liberty (exemption from restraint) to speak his sentiments with
freedom (the spontaneous and bold utterance of his feelings). The liberty of
the press is our great security for freedom of thought.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Synonyms: freedom, liberty, license.
These nouns refer to the power to act, speak, or think without externally
imposed restraints. Freedom is the most general term: “In giving freedom to
the slave, we assure freedom to the free” (Abraham Lincoln). “The freedom of
the press is one of the great bulwarks of liberty” (George Mason). Liberty is
often used interchangeably with freedom; often, however, it especially
stresses the power of free choice: liberty of opinion; liberty of worship; at
liberty to choose whatever occupation she wishes; “liberty, perfect liberty,
to think, feel, do just as one pleases” (William Hazlitt). License sometimes
denotes deliberate deviation from normally applicable rules or practices to
achieve a desired effect, as in literature or art: poetic license. Frequently,
though, it denotes undue freedom: “the intolerable license with which the
newspapers break . . . the rules of decorum” (Edmund Burke).
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In lugnet.general, David Schilling writes:
> In lugnet.general, John Neal writes:
> >
> >
> > Steve Bliss wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > "Liberty Green" seems kinda US-centric to me.
> >
> > Yeah, so what's your point? <g,d,r>
> >
> > -John
>
> I'm Canadian, and I still think it's a good name
I am against ANY name that ties a concept to a particular theme, or particular
thing. This applies to color names and it applies to parts. I think it's
regrettable that some of the LDraw part names for parts used in a number of
themes have theme specific references.
That general principle applies to colors too
Yes, Liberty Green is a neat name and one I as an american am proud of, but
it's still not a good idea. GrayGreen is my choice, followed by verdigris...
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In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> remember.
I think "copper green" is an interesting one -- but it would never work. :-)
--Todd
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Greg Majewski wrote:
> In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
>
> Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
> and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> simple like "Dull Green."
> greg
I agree that we should keep it simple. My favorite choices are:
1) Antique Green
2) Weathered Green
3) Dull Green
Gary Istok
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[trimmed lugnet.lego.direct from ng list]
In lugnet.general, Greg Majewski wrote:
> Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
> and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> simple like "Dull Green."
Hmm. So far, 'we' haven't really tried to deliberatly name anything.[1] So
prior efforts may not be a good guide for future endevours.
I feel like the common color names are getting over-used. How many
different kinds of green has LEGO made? On Suzanne's color chart
http://www.baseplate.com/colors/, there are 9 different variations of green
and near-green colors. After awhile, there's only so many ways you can say
"sorta green".
I think "verdigris" is a good choice.
--
Steve
1) Except maybe alien vomit green (aka, transparent neon green; aka,
trans-antifreeze) or clear beer yellow (aka, trans-yellow).
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In lugnet.general, Steve Bliss writes:
After awhile, there's only so many ways you can say
> "sorta green".
>
> I think "verdigris" is a good choice.
Hey, good point. Verdigris is my second choice.
That reminds me.... Anyone see The Daily Show a few days ago?..
"Bob's answers appear in magenta on the line graph, Sue's show up as burgundy,
and the other viewers' show up as magenta, light red, scarlet, fuschia, brick
red, crimson, and dark pink."
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In lugnet.general, Doug Finney writes:
>
> How could anyone not remember the name after this discussion? :-)
By not being a part of it. The main reason that I think that verdigris is a
bad choice is that newcomers will have no idea what color that refers to.
Before this discussion, if someone had refered to a "verdigris brick", I
wouldn't know if they meant that it was dark green, brownish, light orange, or
red.
I think that colors need to be named so that you don't need to consult a
dictionary to know which is which. I think Gray-Green, or Grey-Green for those
that spell it wrong, ;) is a good choice, followed by sea green, or any other
name containing GREEN.
The other problem with verdigris is that it is hard to spell.
Ben Roller
P.S. I am suprised that lugnet.lego.direct was being posted to this far into a
conversation.
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Todd Lehman wrote:
>
> In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> > I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> > green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> > remember.
>
> I think "copper green" is an interesting one -- but it would never work. :-)
>
> --Todd
"Copper Green" is also a brand of Copper Naphthalate (I think)
in solution that is used to paint on wood to inhibit termites
and rot. It smells horrible.
I vote for "verdigris". If there is already a word that
has the correct definition, we should use it!
If a newcomer doesn't know what it means,
they can look it up in a dictionary. I don't think the word
is any more obscure than "kepi" or "sprue", for example.
And "verdigris" has the precise, correct meaning already.
The other suggested words require more of an extension to their
definitions to fit the new Lego color.
/Eric McC/
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In lugnet.general, Julie Krenz writes:
> I think keeping it simple like the rest of the color names is good. Here's a
> few more - faded green or weathered green.
>
> I wonder what TLC is calling it? I mean besides NEW :-)
> Julie
I called Consumer Affairs and asked them what the name of the color is. They
said they have no official name yet, they are just calling it "new green." I
asked if it is scheduled to be in any other 2001 sets and he said he hadn't
heard of any containing this color, but that he felt confident it would be
used in other sets in the future.
If we are going to choose a color name before TLC does, I would vote for
Antique Green.
BEN GATRELLE
PS The list price is $199 (US)
PPS here it is on the LEGO site in case you couldn't find it:
<http://shop.lego.com/productinfo.asp?product_number=3450>
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In lugnet.general, Ben Roller writes:
> In lugnet.general, Doug Finney writes:
> >
> > How could anyone not remember the name after this discussion? :-)
>
> By not being a part of it. The main reason that I think that verdigris is a
> bad choice is that newcomers will have no idea what color that refers to.
> Before this discussion, if someone had refered to a "verdigris brick", I
> wouldn't know if they meant that it was dark green, brownish, light orange, or
> red.
I don't think you are giving newcomers enough credit. Before Lugnet I had no
clue what bardings or (as Eric McC. mentions) sprues were (I knew what a kepi
was, but then, I have a fairly decent vocabulary), but it didn't take much time
or effort to figure it out. Granted, it is easier to figure out the meaning of
a noun by its context, but the word "verdigris" is rife with clues to its
meaning (anyone who speaks or has ever taken a Romance language should be able
to figure it out).
> I think that colors need to be named so that you don't need to consult a
> dictionary to know which is which. I think Gray-Green, or Grey-Green for • those
> that spell it wrong, ;) is a good choice, followed by sea green, or any other
> name containing GREEN.
Hey, consulting a dictionary is a GOOD thing!
> The other problem with verdigris is that it is hard to spell.
You did just fine! ;-) And as you say with gray/grey, it doesn't really matter
anyway if it's misspelled.
Maggie C.
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I didn't write what Greg quoted me as writing.
I said, and as any good Architect[1] knows, the color is well known as
'patina green'.
Build On!
John Matthews
[1] When I say Architect, I mean the kind of architect that designs
buildings.
Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:G2pKJM.DBI@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
>
> Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark • grey,
> and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> simple like "Dull Green."
> greg
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In lugnet.general, Maggie Cambron writes:
> > The other problem with verdigris is that it is hard to spell.
> You did just fine! ;-)
Well, to be honest, I was confused and had to go look it up in another
message. Your points are well taken though, except I still think that
Gray-green is better because it is clearer. :)
Ben Roller
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I concur with John's description.
As an architect myself, I would call it 'patina green' (depending of course on
the real LEGO brick appearance).
The Staute of liberty (according to architects and metalsmiths) is a pantina
copper color (111 years aged). (I learned a trick as a machinist and student
metalsmith that urine accelerates the patina process in copper - not trying it
personally!! :-)
-jeremy
In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
> I didn't write what Greg quoted me as writing.
>
> I said, and as any good Architect[1] knows, the color is well known as
> 'patina green'.
>
> Build On!
> John Matthews
>
> [1] When I say Architect, I mean the kind of architect that designs
> buildings.
>
>
> Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:G2pKJM.DBI@lugnet.com...
> > In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
> >
> > Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark • grey,
> > and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> > simple like "Dull Green."
> > greg
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Ah... sorry. I was replying to all of the messages in general and yours
happened to be the one I replied to. I guess I forgot to delete the first
line..
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Does anyone think that this model of the statue coming out in the green
color rather strange given that after it's restoration, the Statue of
Liberty is now the color of new untarnished copper?
I know it's rather strange, but if the original designer's intention was for
it to be a copper colored statue, perhaps TLG should have released it in
that color instead. :-)
--
Cheers ...
Geoffrey Hyde
Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:G2r238.BLB@lugnet.com...
> Ah... sorry. I was replying to all of the messages in general and yours
> happened to be the one I replied to. I guess I forgot to delete the first
> line..
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Well according to the latest catalog, Lego is calling them new GREEN BRICKS.
Rose
Gary Istok wrote in message <39F057F0.406C3BAC@umich.edu>...
>
>
> Greg Majewski wrote:
>
> > In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
> >
> > Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark • grey,
> > and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> > simple like "Dull Green."
> > greg
>
> I agree that we should keep it simple. My favorite choices are:
>
> 1) Antique Green
> 2) Weathered Green
> 3) Dull Green
>
> Gary Istok
>
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I am certain that the original designer of the Statue of Liberty understood
that as copper ages it gains a patina. The patina actually helps to
preserve the metal, and the color is quite remarkable. These are properties
of copper that make it a desirable material to work with (in buildings),
albeit an expensive material.
And to think that here in the US our lowest form of currency, the penny, is
made of copper...
Build On!
John Matthews
Geoffrey Hyde <ghyde@ledanet.com.au> wrote in message
news:G2r6xs.MF6@lugnet.com...
> Does anyone think that this model of the statue coming out in the green
> color rather strange given that after it's restoration, the Statue of
> Liberty is now the color of new untarnished copper?
>
> I know it's rather strange, but if the original designer's intention was • for
> it to be a copper colored statue, perhaps TLG should have released it in
> that color instead. :-)
>
>
> --
> Cheers ...
>
> Geoffrey Hyde
>
>
> Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:G2r238.BLB@lugnet.com...
> > Ah... sorry. I was replying to all of the messages in general and yours
> > happened to be the one I replied to. I guess I forgot to delete the • first
> > line..
>
>
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I know I am looking forward to the Liberty set more than any other expensive set
I want. After the main model, it will be to work out some other copper or bronze
monuments. And the roofs... Also "swimming pool color" places.
In lugnet.general, John Matthews writes:
> I am certain that the original designer of the Statue of Liberty understood
> that as copper ages it gains a patina. The patina actually helps to
> preserve the metal, and the color is quite remarkable. These are properties
> of copper that make it a desirable material to work with (in buildings),
> albeit an expensive material.
>
> And to think that here in the US our lowest form of currency, the penny, is
> made of copper...
Modern times are not the first to see the price of copper outstrip the penny. O
zinc wafer. Economies have collapsed before for lack of small change when silver
was more plentiful than copper and tin! (Not that we use silver any more.)
Modern pennies. Hardly any chance for centuries of buildup. I think modern
monies are made more impervious to becoming interesting colors, because we
control what goes into them carefully.
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John Matthews <jmatthew@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:G2rGM7.JD7@lugnet.com...
> I am certain that the original designer of the Statue of Liberty • understood
> that as copper ages it gains a patina. The patina actually helps to
> preserve the metal, and the color is quite remarkable. These are • properties
> of copper that make it a desirable material to work with (in buildings),
> albeit an expensive material.
How do you come to this conclusion? I'm not sure of the background of the
designer, but I'm fairly certain that when they built the statue, they would
have had it built shining in all of it's copper glory, and would have
thought of it that way. I'm also sure that not many - if any - people
actually know who designed the Statue of Liberty - I'm even more certain
that they did not have much knowledge of how copper ages, nor of how it
gains a patina.
> And to think that here in the US our lowest form of currency, the penny, • is
> made of copper...
For the modern pennies, I would say they are a specially designed copper
alloy, made in a blend of metals to prevent dulling and corrosion. I don't
know how the earlier versions would have been made, but the modern era
pennies from the US would certainly have had a whole slew of metallurgy
knowledge built into them. ;-)
--
Cheers ...
Geoffrey Hyde
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> How do you come to this conclusion? I'm not sure of the background of the
> designer, but I'm fairly certain that when they built the statue, they would
> have had it built shining in all of it's copper glory, and would have
> thought of it that way. I'm also sure that not many - if any - people
> actually know who designed the Statue of Liberty - I'm even more certain
> that they did not have much knowledge of how copper ages, nor of how it
> gains a patina.
Why not? Copper was used architecturally much earlier than that late 19th
century. I'm sure *someone* noticed that the stuff turned green over time.
:)
As far as who sculpted it, it was Frederic Bartholdi (a French sculptor)
who supposedly modeled the face of the statue after his mother. The iron
internal framework was done by Gustave Eiffel (of Eiffel Tower fame).
> For the modern pennies, I would say they are a specially designed copper
> alloy, made in a blend of metals to prevent dulling and corrosion. I don't
> know how the earlier versions would have been made, but the modern era
> pennies from the US would certainly have had a whole slew of metallurgy
> knowledge built into them. ;-)
They're actually made out of copper-plated zinc, although older coins
were made out of a blend of primarily copper with a dash of zinc thrown
in.
Now I'm curious about the numbers, though... :) <<<searching the Web>>>
Aha! The U.S. Mint has a FAQ about it at
http://www.usmint.gov/faqs/circulating_coins/index.cfm
The useful part:
"What are current circulating coins made from?
Quarters and dimes are composed of cupro-nickel clad, with a pure copper core,
and an outer layer of a 75 percent copper, 25 percent nickel alloy.
Nickels are made from the same 75-25 alloy, and the cent, once a copper coin,
is now composed of copper plated zinc. These cents are less expensive for the
Mint to manufacture, and at 2.5 grams each, weigh about 20% less than the cent
previously minted of 95 percent copper and 5 percent zinc, which weighed
3.11 grams."
I think another thing that helps contribute to shiny, non-tarnished
coins in circulation is handling of coins. Have you ever seen Lincoln's
nose in verdigris? I think not... :)
Chris
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In lugnet.general, Christopher Lindsey writes:
> > How do you come to this conclusion? I'm not sure of the background of the
> > designer, but I'm fairly certain that when they built the statue, they would
> > have had it built shining in all of it's copper glory, and would have
> > thought of it that way. I'm also sure that not many - if any - people
> > actually know who designed the Statue of Liberty - I'm even more certain
> > that they did not have much knowledge of how copper ages, nor of how it
> > gains a patina.
>
> nose in verdigris? I think not... :)
>
> Chris
Time for me to weigh-in on this one. I remember seeing a show about the
building of the Statue Of Liberty and they did know about the copper turning
green and they specifically designed it using copper so it would turn green.
They mainly chose copper because it was maleable and relatively light weight vs
bronze or iron. It could be formed in sections out of thin sheets instead of
poured at a foundry.
I have to vote for "verdigris". It refers to the green patina that aged copper
and brass take on. Almost any painter/sculptor knows what verdigris is. Time
for the Legomaniacs to learn a sculpting term (especially since it is in
reference to a world famous copper statue).
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Rick Kujawa wrote:
> I have to vote for "verdigris". It refers to the green patina that aged copper
> and brass take on. Almost any painter/sculptor knows what verdigris is. Time
> for the Legomaniacs to learn a sculpting term (especially since it is in
> reference to a world famous copper statue).
Verdigris here too. It's actually a common term at the moment because
it's very "in" in home decorating and has been for several years. We
just need to put it in the FAQ as another term which people may not know
- after all, there are plenty of others.
Kevin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal Lego Web page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kwilson_tccs/lego.html
City Park: Limited edition kit
http://www.lionsgatemodels.com/cat-park.htm
Craftsman Kits & Custom Lego models: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com
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In lugnet.general, Christopher Lindsey writes:
> Why not? Copper was used architecturally much earlier than that late 19th
> century. I'm sure *someone* noticed that the stuff turned green over time.
> :)
Thanks for retrieving those details from the mint!
If you want to see bronze in green, blue, black, brown, even blue, red and other
wacky colors, take a look at some ancient coins. Surf ebay -- they have a
burgeoning ancient coin section that gets wonderful photos.
Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Copper and zinc alloy (orichalcum) was
occasionally substituted in antiquity because it was cheaper, much like today.
You never knew precisely what was in an ore, and the impurities give a lot of
character to ancient metal. One curiosity: ancient silver doesn't tarnish! It's
not pure enough.
Patina, the color coating, is formed by chemical reactions between the metals,
their impurities, and the nearby dirt and air, so there are identifiable primary
reaction colors on one hand, and chance mixture on the other. Copper oxide
contributes that green color but other ingredients enter in. It does take
centuries to build up a stunning texture. Accelerated antiquing has been done by
burying bronze in shit (that valuable industrial commodity.)
I'm not sure if my leg is being pulled, but one coin dealer was telling me that
ear wax helps fortify and feed a good brown patina.
A really beautiful patina of whatever color can result from a lucky combination
of centuries of quiet burial and centuries of safe keeping. I don't understand
why it was necessary to clean the patina off Liberty.
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Erik Olson <olsone@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:G2st8L.HGF@lugnet.com...
> Patina, the color coating, is formed by chemical reactions between the • metals,
> their impurities, and the nearby dirt and air, so there are identifiable • primary
> reaction colors on one hand, and chance mixture on the other. Copper oxide
> contributes that green color but other ingredients enter in. It does take
> centuries to build up a stunning texture. Accelerated antiquing has been • done by
> burying bronze in shit (that valuable industrial commodity.)
Oh well, I guess unless some pigeons want to contribute a lot of it, the
statue won't be getting that kind of tint again. Although the American
public may well wish for that to happen.
> I'm not sure if my leg is being pulled, but one coin dealer was telling me • that
> ear wax helps fortify and feed a good brown patina.
>
> A really beautiful patina of whatever color can result from a lucky • combination
> of centuries of quiet burial and centuries of safe keeping. I don't • understand
> why it was necessary to clean the patina off Liberty.
There was some show that featured the restoration, maybe it's available
somewhere?
I wonder what a search engine would turn up on it?
Ah well, I've got to do lunch here - someone might well come up with the
site in their teeth and let us know! ;-)
Cheers ...
Geoffrey Hyde
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Lorbaat wrote:
>
> In lugnet.general, Jennifer L. Boger writes:
>
> > Dan's sugguested "Copper Green", I agree that verdigris is too much,
> > i'll never remember it :)
>
> Verdigris is a lot to try and remember, but Copper Green is counter intuitive
> (IMHO) because copper isn't usually green...
>
> Actually, what I really want is proof that this "new" green is, in fact,
> completely new, and not a light green that's appeared in a Scala or Belleville
> set before. Then I'll worry about what to call it. :D
>
> eric
As a man who is producing parts from copper tube, copper green is not a
bad name at all. Corroded copper is green..:-)
Selçuk
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Eric McCarthy wrote:
>
> Todd Lehman wrote:
> >
> > In lugnet.general, Bram Lambrecht writes:
> > > I don't speak Fench, but verdigris sounds like gray-green to me. (Well,
> > > green-gray, actually). IMO, gray-green is fairly descriptive and easy to
> > > remember.
> >
> > I think "copper green" is an interesting one -- but it would never work. :-)
> >
> > --Todd
>
> "Copper Green" is also a brand of Copper Naphthalate (I think)
> in solution that is used to paint on wood to inhibit termites
> and rot. It smells horrible.
>
> I vote for "verdigris". If there is already a word that
> has the correct definition, we should use it!
> If a newcomer doesn't know what it means,
> they can look it up in a dictionary. I don't think the word
> is any more obscure than "kepi" or "sprue", for example.
> And "verdigris" has the precise, correct meaning already.
> The other suggested words require more of an extension to their
> definitions to fit the new Lego color.
>
> /Eric McC/
Gray/grey/-green or copper-green is my choice but, what is sprue by the
way?..:-)
Actually I know it but I can't figure out anything related with both it
and Lego.
Selçuk
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I don't know if you have a similar belief but here, it's believed that
if you wish something while you are in-between two people with the same
name, you will have your wish..:-) Hehe...
Thanks to the both Eric's..:-)
Selçuk
Eric Harshbarger wrote:
>
> I vote for 'verdigris' as well. If there is already a word or phrase for
> something, why make up another word or phrase.
>
> eric
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> > Once people use it, you will. I vote for verdigris as well. Failing that I
> > would prefer gray-green rather than antique or copper green.
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Harshbarger / eric@ericharshbarger.org / www.ericharshbarger.org
>
> "Oh please, if people are going to start telling the truth around
> here... I'm going to bed." - Jackie-O (Parker Posey, THE HOUSE OF YES)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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In lugnet.general, Selçuk Göre wrote:
> what is sprue by the way?..:-)
>
> Actually I know it but I can't figure out anything related with both it
> and Lego.
Sprue is the bit of plastic to which minifig tools are attached.
I didn't know about the other meaning until just now -- I checked the
dictionary.
Steve
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In lugnet.general, Ben Gatrelle writes:
> In lugnet.general, Julie Krenz writes:
> > I wonder what TLC is calling it? I mean besides NEW :-)
> > Julie
> I called Consumer Affairs and asked them what the name of the color is. They
> said they have no official name yet, they are just calling it "new green." I
> asked if it is scheduled to be in any other 2001 sets and he said he hadn't
> heard of any containing this color, but that he felt confident it would be
> used in other sets in the future.
Looking at the 2001 catalog pics posted here:
<http://collectibles.echostation.com/fbtb/2/sys09.jpg> it looks like this
"Antique Green" is being used in <set:7311> on the back side of the "wings."
So this color is not going to be exclusive to the Statue of Liberty set,
even for 2001.
BEN
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In article <G2zxsy.CMy@lugnet.com>, Ben Gatrelle
<ben@yellowcastle.spam.com> wrote:
> Looking at the 2001 catalog pics posted here:
> <http://collectibles.echostation.com/fbtb/2/sys09.jpg> it looks like this
> "Antique Green" is being used in <set:7311> on the back side of the "wings."
>
> So this color is not going to be exclusive to the Statue of Liberty set,
> even for 2001.
> BEN
The new green is used in several places on 7311 and in the little
walker in the 7317 alien base.
I like the name "verdigris" green I've seen mentioned in the Statue of
Liberty posts.
John
AFOL and his money are soon parted.
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> The new green is used in several places on 7311 and in the little
> walker in the 7317 alien base.
>
> I like the name "verdigris" green I've seen mentioned in the Statue of
> Liberty posts.
>
> John
verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
secondarily associated with copper.
patina, again according to Webster, is exactly the name of
greenish, weather-aged copper.
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Webster is out of date - patina simply means a weathered and/or age-darkened finish
to antiquers, and can apply to copper, bronze, nickel, wood, etc, etc, etc.
Weathered GREEN would make the most sense, as people would instantly know it is a
shade of GREEN.
"Brian B. Alano" wrote:
> > The new green is used in several places on 7311 and in the little
> > walker in the 7317 alien base.
> >
> > I like the name "verdigris" green I've seen mentioned in the Statue of
> > Liberty posts.
> >
> > John
>
> verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
> secondarily associated with copper.
> patina, again according to Webster, is exactly the name of
> greenish, weather-aged copper.
--
Tom Stangl
***http://www.vfaq.com/
***DSM Visual FAQ home
***http://ba.dsm.org/
***SF Bay Area DSMs
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Brian B. Alano <alano@kiva.net> wrote:
> verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
OED2 says:
1. A green or greenish blue substance obtained artificially by the action
of dilute acetic acid on thin plates of copper (or a green rust naturally
forming on copper and brass), and much used as a pigment, in dyeing, the
arts, and medicine; basic acetate of copper.
And M-W says:
1 a : a green or greenish blue poisonous pigment resulting from the
action of acetic acid on copper and consisting of one or more basic
copper acetates b : normal copper acetate Cu(C2H3O2)2·H2O
2 : a green or bluish deposit especially of copper carbonates formed on
copper, brass, or bronze surfaces
On the other hand, patina is the *film* itself.
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Tom Stangl, VFAQman <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message
news:3A05C764.F18F44FF@vfaq.com...
> Webster is out of date - patina simply means a weathered and/or • age-darkened finish
> to antiquers, and can apply to copper, bronze, nickel, wood, etc, etc, • etc.
>
> Weathered GREEN would make the most sense, as people would instantly know • it is a
> shade of GREEN.
"Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
(almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
--
Paul Davidson
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In lugnet.general, Paul Davidson writes:
> "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
This will become a FAQ anyway: what's verdigris? or, what do you call that pale
doctor's office green color? will pop up regularly.
I don't consider myself illiterate, but when we started the naming discussion, I
immediately thought of Melville, who writes at length, in one of those splendid
asides in Moby Dick, about verdigris, the pearly-grey substance obtained from
whale's innards, of no particular use, which excites unusual bravado among
whalers, who risk all else to claim it--above all other fruits of the sea-
roads....
However, I was informed by my dictionary that it also describes those other
colors.
Privately, I'll continue to refer to it as "Liberty Green" though verdigris will
do as the generic name.
-Erik
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Erik Olson wrote in message ...
> I don't consider myself illiterate, but when we started the naming • discussion, I
> immediately thought of Melville, who writes at length, in one of those • splendid
> asides in Moby Dick, about verdigris, the pearly-grey substance obtained • from
> whale's innards, of no particular use, which excites unusual bravado among
> whalers, who risk all else to claim it--above all other fruits of the sea-
> roads....
That would be AMBERgris...
Kevin
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Picture a discussion that someone comes into. The color GREEN is never
mentioned, just verdigris. So the person looks it up.
Tell me how they are going to know whether the color being discussed is a muted
greyish green, or a greenish-something, or a bluish-something, given the
definitions.
The color we are discussing has no blue in it whatsoever that I could tell
seeing it in person, but if you just used the definitions, it COULD.
I like the word verdigris too, but if the name is not obvious without asking
for a clarification of a definition in the dictionary, it's the WRONG word to
use.
Weathered green, aged green, "SOMETHING green" makes the best sense overall.
Paul Davidson wrote:
> Tom Stangl, VFAQman <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message
> news:3A05C764.F18F44FF@vfaq.com...
> > Webster is out of date - patina simply means a weathered and/or • age-darkened finish
> > to antiquers, and can apply to copper, bronze, nickel, wood, etc, etc, • etc.
> >
> > Weathered GREEN would make the most sense, as people would instantly know • it is a
> > shade of GREEN.
>
> "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
>
> --
>
> Paul Davidson
--
Tom Stangl
***http://www.vfaq.com/
***DSM Visual FAQ home
***http://ba.dsm.org/
***SF Bay Area DSMs
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My dictionary says "[ME vertegrez, fr. OF vert de Grice, lit., green of Greece]
(14c)" I assume for the bronze artworks. It predates Lego.
>
>
> "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Paul Davidson
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In lugnet.general, Tom Stangl writes:
> Picture a discussion that someone comes into. The color GREEN is never
> mentioned, just verdigris. So the person looks it up.
>
> Tell me how they are going to know whether the color being discussed is a muted
> greyish green, or a greenish-something, or a bluish-something, given the
> definitions.
>
> The color we are discussing has no blue in it whatsoever that I could tell
> seeing it in person, but if you just used the definitions, it COULD.
>
> I like the word verdigris too, but if the name is not obvious without asking
> for a clarification of a definition in the dictionary, it's the WRONG word to
> use.
>
> Weathered green, aged green, "SOMETHING green" makes the best sense overall.
The man has a point, which is valid for grey as well. Maybe we should just
call it grey-green or greenish grey?
++Lar
>
> Paul Davidson wrote:
>
> > Tom Stangl, VFAQman <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message
> > news:3A05C764.F18F44FF@vfaq.com...
> > > Webster is out of date - patina simply means a weathered and/or • age-darkened finish
> > > to antiquers, and can apply to copper, bronze, nickel, wood, etc, etc, • etc.
> > >
> > > Weathered GREEN would make the most sense, as people would instantly know • it is a
> > > shade of GREEN.
> >
> > "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> > (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Paul Davidson
>
> --
> Tom Stangl
> ***http://www.vfaq.com/
> ***DSM Visual FAQ home
> ***http://ba.dsm.org/
> ***SF Bay Area DSMs
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Paul Davidson wrote:
>
> Tom Stangl, VFAQman <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message
> news:3A05C764.F18F44FF@vfaq.com...
> > Webster is out of date - patina simply means a weathered and/or • age-darkened finish
> > to antiquers, and can apply to copper, bronze, nickel, wood, etc, etc, • etc.
> >
> > Weathered GREEN would make the most sense, as people would instantly know • it is a
> > shade of GREEN.
>
> "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
This is a joke, right?..:-)
Selçuk
>
> Paul Davidson
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Paul Davidson <tinman@direct.ca> wrote:
> "Verdigris" is pretty obvious in meaning, I think. You'd have to be
> (almost) illiterate not to make the verdi=green or gris=grey connections.
Well, verdi=green, but gris actually = Greece.
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Tom Stangl, VFAQman <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote:
> Tell me how they are going to know whether the color being discussed is a
> muted greyish green, or a greenish-something, or a bluish-something, given
> the definitions.
If they don't get an accurate picture from the dictionary, that's the
dictionary's fault. Verdigris isn't actually a hugely variable shade -- it's
just that colors are hard to describe/define in words. Luckily, the
definitions in the dictionaries I've looked in make sure to mention that
it's the color of the patina formed on copper -- which is exactly the color
Lego is representing.
> Weathered green, aged green, "SOMETHING green" makes the best sense overall.
Doesn't make sense. Something colored green doesn't weather or age to that
color. Something *copper* does.
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Larry Pieniazek <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote:
> The man has a point, which is valid for grey as well. Maybe we should just
> call it grey-green or greenish grey?
*shrug* I don't see any grey in it at all.
Plus, verdi means green -- verdigris literally comes from the phrase "green
of Greece". (And both dictionaries I looked in said so.)
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Brian B. Alano wrote:
> verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
> secondarily associated with copper.
> patina, again according to Webster, is exactly the name of
> greenish, weather-aged copper.
As an aside, Sunday morning on NPR's Weekend Edition a story mentioned
'verdigris' and 'patina' (and i thing 'aged copper') in the same
sentance. Isn't it odd how once you hear or see a word it shows up
'everywhere'? Or maybe I'm just paying more attention. :)
-Chris
ps. I prefer 'patina'
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In lugnet.general, Christopher Tracey writes:
> Brian B. Alano wrote:
> > verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
> > secondarily associated with copper.
> > patina, again according to Webster, is exactly the name of
> > greenish, weather-aged copper.
>
> As an aside, Sunday morning on NPR's Weekend Edition a story mentioned
> 'verdigris' and 'patina' (and i thing 'aged copper') in the same
> sentance. Isn't it odd how once you hear or see a word it shows up
> 'everywhere'? Or maybe I'm just paying more attention. :)
>
> -Chris
>
> ps. I prefer 'patina'
In the circles I frequent, 'patina' is always qualified with a color name, like
red patina, green patina, brown patina. Not that Lego is going to come out with
all those nice colors.
-Erik
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In lugnet.general, Matthew Miller writes:
> Larry Pieniazek <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote:
> > The man has a point, which is valid for grey as well. Maybe we should just
> > call it grey-green or greenish grey?
>
> *shrug* I don't see any grey in it at all.
>
> Plus, verdi means green -- verdigris literally comes from the phrase "green
> of Greece". (And both dictionaries I looked in said so.)
But this Grece story is debatable, despite being reported in common
dictionaries.
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Erik Olson <olsone@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > ps. I prefer 'patina'
> In the circles I frequent, 'patina' is always qualified with a color name,
> like red patina, green patina, brown patina. Not that Lego is going to come
> out with all those nice colors.
Right -- patina is the filmy layer, whereas verdigris is its color.
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Erik Olson <olsone@spamcop.net> wrote:
> But this Grece story is debatable, despite being reported in common
> dictionaries.
Like the OED.
verdigris v@+-Rdigris. Forms: &ia.; 4 century verdegrez, 4-6 century
-gres(e, 5 century -greys, 7 century -gresse, -griese, 7-8 century -grease;
5-6 century verdegrece, 6-7 century -greace, 7-8 century -greece; 6-9
century verdigrease, 6 century -grese, 6-8 century -greese (7 century
verdie-), 6 century verdigrece, 7 century -greace, -greece; 6 century
verdygresse, -grace, 7 century virdigreace, -greese. &ib.; 4 century
vertegrez, 5-6 century -grece (5 century vertagrece, 6 century
verthigreace), 5 century vertgrez, -grees, 6 century -grese, -gresse, 7
century -greece. &ig.; 5 century vert de grece, 7 century vertdegrease.
&id.; 6 century , 8-9 century verdegris (6 century verddegris), 7-9 century
verdigrise, 8- century verdigris. &ie.; 6 century vargrasse, vergres(se
(wer-), vergrys, Sc. vern-, varngris. a. AFr. and OFr. vert de Grece (C.
1170), OFr. verte grez (13th c.), vert de grice (1314), vert-de-gris (15th
c.; also mod.Fr.), lit. `green of Greece': see vert sb.1 Cf. med.L. viride
grecum (14-15th c.). The terminal syllable at an early date was no longer
understood and hence underwent various corruptions of spelling and
pronunciation.
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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How do you pronounce "verdigris?"
In lugnet.general, Steve Bliss writes:
> [trimmed lugnet.lego.direct from ng list]
>
> In lugnet.general, Greg Majewski wrote:
>
> > Since we haven't given any other color a fancy name (light blue and dark grey,
> > and not charcoal or azure, etc) I think that we should stick to something
> > simple like "Dull Green."
>
> Hmm. So far, 'we' haven't really tried to deliberatly name anything.[1] So
> prior efforts may not be a good guide for future endevours.
>
> I feel like the common color names are getting over-used. How many
> different kinds of green has LEGO made? On Suzanne's color chart
> http://www.baseplate.com/colors/, there are 9 different variations of green
> and near-green colors. After awhile, there's only so many ways you can say
> "sorta green".
>
> I think "verdigris" is a good choice.
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Markus Wolf <croutons@usa.net> wrote:
> How do you pronounce "verdigris?"
VerdehGREESE. Or verdehGRISSS. Or verdehgriss. Or even verdehGREE.
It's flexible. :)
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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In lugnet.general, Brian B. Alano wrote:
> verdigris, according to www.webster.com, can be greenish or bluish, and is only
> secondarily associated with copper.
> patina, again according to Webster, is exactly the name of
> greenish, weather-aged copper.
I looked up the definitions. To paraphrase, "the color of patina is
verdigris".
Patina is a surface film. Verdigris is a color. Both are primarily
associated with rusted copper, but Patina has broader usage, not related to
color or metal.
Quoting <http://www.webster.com>:
Verdigris:
> 1 a : a green or greenish blue poisonous pigment resulting from the action
> of acetic acid on copper and consisting of one or more basic copper acetates
> b : normal copper acetate Cu(C2H3O2)2·H2O
> 2 : a green or bluish deposit especially of copper carbonates formed on
> copper, brass, or bronze surfaces
3 definitions, all of them linked to tarnished metal. 2 being the color
thereof.
Patina:
> 1 a : a usually green film formed naturally on copper and bronze by long
> exposure or artificially (as by acids) and often valued aesthetically for
> its color
> b : a surface appearance of something grown beautiful especially with age or use
> 2 : an appearance or aura that is derived from association, habit, or
> established character
> 3 : a superficial covering or exterior
4 definitions, only one of them associated with the color of tarnished
copper. And "usually green" could be interpreted as being about the same
as "green or greenish blue".
Whatever. If someone refers to "liberty green", "gray-green", "green of
Greece", "verdigris", or "patina", we'll know what they mean.
BTW, I was in a craft store the other day, and found a greenish paint
called "Liberty Green". It looked more like forest green to me.
Steve
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If you want to say it properly, you should not pronounce the "s"
:^)
~Mark "Muffin Head" Sandlin
--
Mark's Lego Creations
http://www.nwlink.com/~sandlin/lego
> From: mattdm@mattdm.org (Matthew Miller)
> Markus Wolf <croutons@usa.net> wrote:
> > How do you pronounce "verdigris?"
>
> VerdehGREESE. Or verdehGRISSS. Or verdehgriss. Or even verdehGREE.
>
> It's flexible. :)
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Steve Bliss <steve.bliss@home.com> wrote:
> Verdigris:
> > 1 a : a green or greenish blue poisonous pigment resulting from the action
> > of acetic acid on copper and consisting of one or more basic copper acetates • [snip]
> 3 definitions, all of them linked to tarnished metal. 2 being the color
> thereof.
#1 is also related to the color.
(Ok, I've said enough on this. I'll shut up now. *grin*)
> Whatever. If someone refers to "liberty green", "gray-green", "green of
> Greece", "verdigris", or "patina", we'll know what they mean.
Calling it grey-green seems like calling pink grey-red. :)
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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In lugnet.general, Matthew Miller writes:
> Like the OED.
You have quoted the OED several times in this thread. Do you have a copy,
work at a library with a copy, or (hopefully) have access to it online and
can share the address?
FU to off-topic.geek (though not techno geek, etymological geek)
BEN GATRELLE
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Ben Gatrelle <ben@yellowcastle.spam.com> wrote:
> You have quoted the OED several times in this thread. Do you have a copy,
> work at a library with a copy, or (hopefully) have access to it online and
> can share the address?
Access online. It's restricted to Boston University though, so
unfortunately sharing the link won't help you much. :(
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Matthew Miller writes:
> Ben Gatrelle <ben@yellowcastle.spam.com> wrote:
> > You have quoted the OED several times in this thread. Do you have a copy,
> > work at a library with a copy, or (hopefully) have access to it online and
> > can share the address?
>
> Access online. It's restricted to Boston University though, so
> unfortunately sharing the link won't help you much. :(
Yes, when I graduated from The College of Charleston <www.cofc.edu>, SC in
1994 all I had access to was the 20+ volume set of the OED that we had in
the library. There was talk about the OED being available online or that it
was being converted to an online database that could be accessed by
subscription, or something. At the time we didn't have it. Now I am out of
academia, so when I need to look up something I use www.m-w.com or MS
Bookshelf now (or one of several of my hard copy dictionaries).
BEN
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Hmmm, I guess I'll stick with "NEW GREEN"
Markus
In lugnet.general, Mark Sandlin writes:
> If you want to say it properly, you should not pronounce the "s"
>
> :^)
>
> ~Mark "Muffin Head" Sandlin
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Try www.oed.com but i'll warn you, it's pretty salty from what I recall.
Markus
In lugnet.general, Ben Gatelle writes:
> In lugnet.general, Matthew Miller writes:
>
> > Like the OED.
>
> You have quoted the OED several times in this thread. Do you have a copy,
> work at a library with a copy, or (hopefully) have access to it online and
> can share the address?
>
> FU to off-topic.geek (though not techno geek, etymological geek)
>
> BEN GATRELLE
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In lugnet.general, Markus Wolf wrote:
> Hmmm, I guess I'll stick with "NEW GREEN"
And ten years from now, you'll be talking about the "newer green", and the
"newest green", right?
Steve
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Markus Wolf <croutons@usa.net> wrote:
> Try www.oed.com but i'll warn you, it's pretty salty from what I recall.
Hey cool -- BU's subscription works there, and it's a much nicer interface
than our primative gateway. :)
--
Matthew Miller ---> mattdm@mattdm.org
Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
Boston University Linux ---> http://linux.bu.edu/
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Yup! And after that it will be "Really New Green" and then "Really Really
New Green" and then "Bride of New Green" and "Son of New Green" and then
"Abbot and Costello meet New Green" and we all know that after you meet
Abbot and Costello, it's all over.
Markus
Because life really is all that simple...
In lugnet.general, Steve Bliss writes:
> In lugnet.general, Markus Wolf wrote:
>
> > Hmmm, I guess I'll stick with "NEW GREEN"
>
> And ten years from now, you'll be talking about the "newer green", and the
> "newest green", right?
>
> Steve
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