| |
In lugnet.events.brickfest, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Here are the first few questions
>
> Colors:
> A:
> Jake is answering the color qiuestion: We had to (see text) but we did not
> communicate right. They are NOT coming back. but...
> we are going to try to produce some old colors in bulk... 10000 bags of each
> of several SKUa and when they are gone they are gone.
> Q: mosaics"
> A: everything produced in 2004 will be new.
> Q:Jason Krish: CC: Would any (new) Classic Space/Castle Legends be with the
> old or new light grey??
> A: New production, new gray
Had I beed at BF PDX, I would have wanted to ask the following questions:
1. How many staffers lost or will will lose their jobs as a result of this
color chage fiasco??
I know if I were KKK, I would discharge the entire marketing team, the research
team, and any outside firms or contractors involved with the color change
fiasco. I would proabably also fire those who authorized this monstrous mistake
and the engineers who developed the horrible new colors.
2. How low are first-quarter sales in 2004 worldwide and how much is attributed
to the color change disaster?? What is the expected finacial loss as a result
of the color change??
3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their formula,
lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original formula. It
seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at TLC.
4. Why has this color change NOT beem marketed?? IF it is such a good thing,
such as "New and Improved Colors" then why is it not presented as such??
This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means to me,
personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either that, or
their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during Marketing 101.
5. How are AFOLS who put on public events suppoed to answer or comment on the
color changes??
I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have trouble
in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don't even want to do
public events with Lego anymore because I don't want to be put in that
situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say anything at
all, which means I stay home!
Most sincerely,
__Kevin Salm__
LUCNY
|
|
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<snipped>
> Had I beed at BF PDX, I would have wanted to ask the following questions:
>
> 1. How many staffers lost or will will lose their jobs as a result of • this
> color chage fiasco??
I would be willing to bet not a single one. The ones that will lose their
jobs are the line workers. The first to go when a company runs into a
financial downturn.
>
> I know if I were KKK, I would discharge the entire marketing team, the • research
> team, and any outside firms or contractors involved with the color change
> fiasco. I would proabably also fire those who authorized this monstrous • mistake
> and the engineers who developed the horrible new colors.
Could not agree with you more!
> 2. How low are first-quarter sales in 2004 worldwide and how much is • attributed
> to the color change disaster?? What is the expected finacial loss as a • result
> of the color change??
Lego is a company that lacks any shred of the forsight it takes to see stuff
like this. They will blindly proceed and then be astonished that there was
still a decline. They brought back Galidor, that speaks for itself.
I know for myself, I spent close to 20K on Lego last year. This may not be
a lot by some AFOL standards, but it sure seems stupid to me that this is
business Lego is willing to throw away without even thinking twice. My
spending this year will be lucky to hit one tenth of that. What I do buy
will not be new products but rather older stuff that I never had or want to
have again.
>
> 3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their • formula,
> lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original formula. • It
> seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at TLC.
Coke must not be available in Billund. :)
> 4. Why has this color change NOT beem marketed?? IF it is such a good • thing,
> such as "New and Improved Colors" then why is it not presented as such??
>
> This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means to • me,
> personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either • that, or
> their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during Marketing 101.
I think this is exactly why the explanation being offered is so hard to
swallow. It takes a phenomonal level of ignorance to handle something this
big in such a manner. It is clear to me that KKK must put an aweful lot of
faith in a group of completely incompetant engineers in the design lab.
> 5. How are AFOLS who put on public events suppoed to answer or comment on • the
> color changes??
>
> I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have • trouble
> in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don't even want to • do
> public events with Lego anymore because I don't want to be put in that
> situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say • anything at
> all, which means I stay home!
You hit the nail on the head here Kevin, might as well stay home. I could
not in any way support Lego on this particular issue.
Greg
|
|
| |
In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
snipped
> I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have trouble
> in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don't even want to do
> public events with Lego anymore because I don't want to be put in that
> situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say anything at
> all, which means I stay home!
>
> Most sincerely,
>
>
> __Kevin Salm__
> LUCNY
Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the public of
this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a new set
with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the public of
this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and similar
sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid looking at
the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color change. At
events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) what they
will get if they buy that new set.
Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who will it be??
Adr.
|
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| |
Problems is that if AFOL's took this approach, it would then be our fault
Lego continued to have a financial decline. No doubt in my mind that is how
it would go down. Clearly TLC has no intention of admitting the severity of
the color changes.
Greg
"Adrian Egli" <aegli@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Ht6ytt.97s@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
>
> snipped
>
> > I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have • trouble
> > in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don't even want to • do
> > public events with Lego anymore because I don't want to be put in that
> > situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say • anything at
> > all, which means I stay home!
> >
> > Most sincerely,
> >
> >
> > __Kevin Salm__
> > LUCNY
>
> Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
>
> As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the • public of
> this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a new • set
> with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
>
> Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the public • of
> this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and • similar
> sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid • looking at
> the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color change. • At
> events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) • what they
> will get if they buy that new set.
>
> Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who will • it be??
>
> Adr.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.lego, Adrian Egli wrote:
> In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
>
> Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
>
> As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the public of
> this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a new set
> with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
>
> Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the public of
> this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and similar
> sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid looking at
> the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color change. At
> events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) what they
> will get if they buy that new set.
>
> Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who will it be??
>
> Adr.
This is actually a very valid point. We can make our own "marketing" campaign at
any public display. We (as AFOLs) can raise the issue that Lego has created. Be
as negative as you want to be. Tell kids that their old sets no longer are
“compatible” with the new sets. Tell them that they are wasting their money
buying new sets. Heck even point people to alternatives vs. buying new sets –
show them Bricklink as a way that they can buy old gray and brown colors. Get
the message out there! We can even do radio spots like "public service
announcements" -- maybe even getting on talk radio/TV and let them hear our
outcry!
In the manner that we can positively affect kid's opinions, we can just as
easily put a negative spin on their opinions.
Of course we don’t have to do this.
-mark
|
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In lugnet.events.brickfest, Gregory Muri wrote:
| |
snipped
| |
Had I beed at BF PDX, I would have wanted to ask the following questions:
1. How many staffers lost or will will lose their jobs as a result of this
color chage fiasco??
|
I would be willing to bet not a single one. The ones that will lose their
jobs are the line workers. The first to go when a company runs into a
financial downturn.
| |
I know if I were KKK, I would discharge the entire marketing team, the
research team, and any outside firms or contractors involved with the color
change fiasco. I would proabably also fire those who authorized this
monstrous mistake and the engineers who developed the horrible new colors.
|
Could not agree with you more!
| |
2. How low are first-quarter sales in 2004 worldwide and how much is
attributed to the color change disaster?? What is the expected finacial loss
as a result of the color change??
|
Lego is a company that lacks any shred of the forsight it takes to see stuff
like this. They will blindly proceed and then be astonished that there was
still a decline. They brought back Galidor, that speaks for itself.
I know for myself, I spent close to 20K on Lego last year. This may not be
a lot by some AFOL standards, but it sure seems stupid to me that this is
business Lego is willing to throw away without even thinking twice. My
spending this year will be lucky to hit one tenth of that. What I do buy
will not be new products but rather older stuff that I never had or want to
have again.
| |
3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their
formula, lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original
formula. It seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at
TLC.
|
Coke must not be available in Billund. :)
| |
4. Why has this color change NOT beem marketed?? IF it is such a good
thing, such as “New and Improved Colors” then why is it not presented as
such??
This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means to me,
personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either that,
or their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during Marketing 101.
|
I think this is exactly why the explanation being offered is so hard to
swallow. It takes a phenomonal level of ignorance to handle something this
big in such a manner. It is clear to me that KKK must put an aweful lot of
faith in a group of completely incompetant engineers in the design lab.
| |
5. How are AFOLS who put on public events suppoed to answer or comment on
the color changes??
I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have
trouble in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don’t even want
to do public events with Lego anymore because I don’t want to be put in that
situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say anything
at all, which means I stay home!
|
You hit the nail on the head here Kevin, might as well stay home. I could
not in any way support Lego on this particular issue.
Greg
|
I completely agree. I don’t think anyone at LEGO will lose their job for this.
I also don’t think “that Lego was trying to sneak the color change in the back
door”. This statement implies that they actually thought the color change was
relevant to someone.
I DON’T THINK WE AFOLS ARE EVEN ON THEIR RADAR.
LEGO blissfully made the color change, thinking they were IMPROVING the colors.
The company as whole is so totally unaware/unconcerned about us that it didn’t
even cross their minds that people might be upset.
I commend Jake on his great efforts to educate TLG about AFOLs. But as he
himself has said many times, it’s hard to get the battleship to turn. In the
corporate giant’s mind, we are only 5% and we will always only be 5%. Even if
TLG does consider us in future decisions, what’s the best we can hope for? 5%
that’s what. 5% of any consideration will go to AFOL interests; in other
words, TLG’s decision making process will, at its core, be exactly like it is
now. The best we can hope for is more polite damage control, i.e. maybe the
company will have enough consideration/respect for us to tell us in advance
about the new improved change in the brick dimensions or the new improved stud
shape/separation or the discontinuation of ...
“Everybody goes home happy!”
I wish. :(
-WWWally
|
|
| |
It would be more accurately stated:
Nobody goes home happy!
How could anyone possibly go home happy when the answer is TOUGH, maybe we
will offer some limited availability elements but after that too bad we
could are less.
It is wholly and completely depressing to think about what a Classic Space
Legend would look like in the new colors. What is worse is the thought of
having to pass on buying it just because of the defective parts colors.
Heck by then bricks are likely not to have any sharp corners or edges
because they look better. What is to say that we can soon expect to see
bricks that are no longer compatable with older parts?
Greg
"WWWally" <wally-SPAMMEwally@erolsNOT.com> wrote in message
news:Ht747J.18Eu@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.events.brickfest, Gregory Muri wrote:
> > <snipped>
> > > Had I beed at BF PDX, I would have wanted to ask the following • questions:
> > >
> > > 1. How many staffers lost or will will lose their jobs as a result of • this
> > > color chage fiasco??
> >
> > I would be willing to bet not a single one. The ones that will lose • their
> > jobs are the line workers. The first to go when a company runs into a
> > financial downturn.
> >
> > >
> > > I know if I were KKK, I would discharge the entire marketing team, the
> > > research team, and any outside firms or contractors involved with the • color
> > > change fiasco. I would proabably also fire those who authorized this
> > > monstrous mistake and the engineers who developed the horrible new • colors.
> >
> >
> > Could not agree with you more!
> >
> > > 2. How low are first-quarter sales in 2004 worldwide and how much is
> > > attributed to the color change disaster?? What is the expected • finacial loss
> > > as a result of the color change??
> >
> > Lego is a company that lacks any shred of the forsight it takes to see • stuff
> > like this. They will blindly proceed and then be astonished that there • was
> > still a decline. They brought back Galidor, that speaks for itself.
> >
> > I know for myself, I spent close to 20K on Lego last year. This may not • be
> > a lot by some AFOL standards, but it sure seems stupid to me that this • is
> > business Lego is willing to throw away without even thinking twice. My
> > spending this year will be lucky to hit one tenth of that. What I do • buy
> > will not be new products but rather older stuff that I never had or want • to
> > have again.
> >
> > >
> > > 3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their
> > > formula, lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original
> > > formula. It seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by • anyone at
> > > TLC.
> >
> >
> > Coke must not be available in Billund. :)
> >
> > > 4. Why has this color change NOT beem marketed?? IF it is such a good
> > > thing, such as "New and Improved Colors" then why is it not presented • as
> > > such??
> > >
> > > This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means • to me,
> > > personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either • that,
> > > or their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during Marketing • 101.
> >
> >
> > I think this is exactly why the explanation being offered is so hard to
> > swallow. It takes a phenomonal level of ignorance to handle something • this
> > big in such a manner. It is clear to me that KKK must put an aweful lot • of
> > faith in a group of completely incompetant engineers in the design lab.
> >
> > > 5. How are AFOLS who put on public events suppoed to answer or comment • on
> > > the color changes??
> > >
> > > I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may • have
> > > trouble in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don't • even want
> > > to do public events with Lego anymore because I don't want to be put in • that
> > > situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say • anything
> > > at all, which means I stay home!
> >
> > You hit the nail on the head here Kevin, might as well stay home. I • could
> > not in any way support Lego on this particular issue.
> >
> > Greg
>
> I completely agree. I don't think anyone at LEGO will lose their job for • this.
> I also don't think "that Lego was trying to sneak the color change in the • back
> door". This statement implies that they actually thought the color change • was
> relevant to someone.
>
> [I DON'T THINK WE AFOLS ARE EVEN ON THEIR RADAR.]
>
> LEGO blissfully made the color change, thinking they were IMPROVING the • colors.
> The company as whole is so totally unaware/unconcerned about us that it • didn't
> even {cross their minds} that people might be upset.
>
> I commend Jake on his great efforts to educate TLG about AFOLs. But as he
> himself has said many times, it's hard to get the battleship to turn. In • the
> corporate giant's mind, we are only 5% and we will always only be 5%. • Even if
> TLG does consider us in future decisions, what's the best we can hope for? • _5%_
> that's what. 5% of any consideration will go to AFOL interests; in other
> words, TLG's decision making process will, at its core, be exactly like it • is
> now. The best we can hope for is more polite damage control, i.e. maybe • the
> company will have enough consideration/respect for us to tell us in • advance
> about the new improved change in the brick dimensions or the new improved • stud
> shape/separation or the discontinuation of ...
>
> "Everybody goes home happy!"
>
> I wish. :(
>
> -WWWally
|
|
| |
In lugnet.lego, Mark Rideout wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Adrian Egli wrote:
> > In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
> >
> > Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
> >
> > As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the public of
> > this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a new set
> > with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
> >
> > Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the public of
> > this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and similar
> > sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid looking at
> > the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color change. At
> > events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) what they
> > will get if they buy that new set.
> >
> > Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who will it be??
> >
> > Adr.
This is a very good idea and it does work.
I have informed many people in the Lego aisles of many stores about the color
change. Many of them leave without purchasing anything, or they just decide to
buy the MB. Not all of them care. But I feel it is my duty to inform every
person I come in contact with in those aisles about this.
The last child I purchased sets for wanted me to take every one of them back to
the store. He is 8 years of age. But as soon as he opened the first new set, he
noticed that the colors did not match. I ended up taking $300.00 worth of Lego
sets back to TRU to exchange for older sets. He is a happy 8 year old now.
So, informing the general public does work. Not always, as I said, but if this
case of corporate stupidity hurts them enough, they may have no choice but to
reverse the decision.
Enough said,
Steven Weiser
|
|
| |
In lugnet.lego, Steven D. Weiser wrote:
> I have informed many people in the Lego aisles of many stores about the
> color change. Many of them leave without purchasing anything,
Do you find that they they just nod politely, smile feebly, and then start to
back away slowly, without making any sudden moves which might alarm you?
Cheers
Richie Dulin
|
|
| |
In lugnet.lego, Gregory Muri wrote:
> Problems is that if AFOL's took this approach, it would then be our fault
> Lego continued to have a financial decline. No doubt in my mind that is how
> it would go down. Clearly TLC has no intention of admitting the severity of
> the color changes.
>
> Greg
I wouldn't like to see TLC going down but, what else would it take to them to go
back on this issue?? (Once they can't hear us...)
Paulo Renato
|
|
| |
In lugnet.lego, Richie Dulin wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Steven D. Weiser wrote:
> > I have informed many people in the Lego aisles of many stores about the
> > color change. Many of them leave without purchasing anything,
>
> Do you find that they they just nod politely, smile feebly, and then start to
> back away slowly, without making any sudden moves which might alarm you?
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Richie Dulin
Actually, most of them have given me that"huh? Why would the Lego company do
something so stupid after all these years" look.
Some do just give that "yeah, whatever" look.
But no one has ever fainted from the disbelief after being told. Well, not
including me anyway.
Steve
|
|
| |
In lugnet.events.brickfest, Walter Walters wrote:
| |
In lugnet.events.brickfest, Gregory Muri wrote:
| |
snipped
| |
Had I beed at BF PDX, I would have wanted to ask the following questions:
1. How many staffers lost or will will lose their jobs as a result of
this color chage fiasco??
|
I would be willing to bet not a single one. The ones that will lose their
jobs are the line workers. The first to go when a company runs into a
financial downturn.
| |
I know if I were KKK, I would discharge the entire marketing team, the
research team, and any outside firms or contractors involved with the color
change fiasco. I would proabably also fire those who authorized this
monstrous mistake and the engineers who developed the horrible new colors.
|
Could not agree with you more!
| |
2. How low are first-quarter sales in 2004 worldwide and how much is
attributed to the color change disaster?? What is the expected finacial
loss as a result of the color change??
|
Lego is a company that lacks any shred of the forsight it takes to see stuff
like this. They will blindly proceed and then be astonished that there was
still a decline. They brought back Galidor, that speaks for itself.
I know for myself, I spent close to 20K on Lego last year. This may not be
a lot by some AFOL standards, but it sure seems stupid to me that this is
business Lego is willing to throw away without even thinking twice. My
spending this year will be lucky to hit one tenth of that. What I do buy
will not be new products but rather older stuff that I never had or want to
have again.
| |
3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their
formula, lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original
formula. It seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at
TLC.
|
Coke must not be available in Billund. :)
| |
4. Why has this color change NOT beem marketed?? IF it is such a good
thing, such as “New and Improved Colors” then why is it not presented as
such??
This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means to
me, personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either
that, or their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during
Marketing 101.
|
I think this is exactly why the explanation being offered is so hard to
swallow. It takes a phenomonal level of ignorance to handle something this
big in such a manner. It is clear to me that KKK must put an aweful lot of
faith in a group of completely incompetant engineers in the design lab.
| |
5. How are AFOLS who put on public events suppoed to answer or comment on
the color changes??
I know I only have NEGATIVE things to say about it, and as such may have
trouble in future being diplomatic about it. In a big way, I don’t even
want to do public events with Lego anymore because I don’t want to be put
in that situation. If I cannot say anything good, perhaps I should not say
anything at all, which means I stay home!
|
You hit the nail on the head here Kevin, might as well stay home. I could
not in any way support Lego on this particular issue.
Greg
|
I completely agree. I don’t think anyone at LEGO will lose their job for
this. I also don’t think “that Lego was trying to sneak the color change in
the back door”. This statement implies that they actually thought the color
change was relevant to someone.
I DON’T THINK WE AFOLS ARE EVEN ON THEIR RADAR.
LEGO blissfully made the color change, thinking they were IMPROVING the
colors. The company as whole is so totally unaware/unconcerned about us that
it didn’t even cross their minds that people might be upset.
I commend Jake on his great efforts to educate TLG about AFOLs. But as he
himself has said many times, it’s hard to get the battleship to turn. In the
corporate giant’s mind, we are only 5% and we will always only be 5%. Even
if TLG does consider us in future decisions, what’s the best we can hope for?
5% that’s what. 5% of any consideration will go to AFOL interests; in
other words, TLG’s decision making process will, at its core, be exactly like
it is now. The best we can hope for is more polite damage control, i.e.
maybe the company will have enough consideration/respect for us to tell us in
advance about the new improved change in the brick dimensions or the new
improved stud shape/separation or the discontinuation of ...
|
My thinking on this was even broader than just AFOL’s. I was thinking of the
lack of marketing to the masses.
When laundry detergent or toothpaste or automobiles or shampoo or razors or
pizza are changed, the marketing departments and advertising agencies involved
always ramp up huge campains claiming “NEW AND IMPROVED” etc. Each small change
commands gigantic expenditures for new packaging, new advertising, and the like.
They get the word out.
Otherwise, what is the point to the “improvement” if no one knows about it?
When I referred to sleeping during Marketing 101, I referred to the missed
opportunity to promote products and their “NEW AND IMPROVED” status.
You are right that marking and promotion of Lego brand products does not target
AFOL’s and I am not sure it ever will or even needs to. We don’t need to be
enticed into buying Lego products, we do it anyway. Or at least we did until
this color change disaster.
Kevin Salm
|
|
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In lugnet.lego, Mark Rideout wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Adrian Egli wrote:
> > In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
> >
> > Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
> >
> > As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the public of
> > this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a new set
> > with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
> >
> > Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the public of
> > this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and similar
> > sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid looking at
> > the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color change. At
> > events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) what they
> > will get if they buy that new set.
> >
> > Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who will it be??
> >
> > Adr.
>
> This is actually a very valid point. We can make our own "marketing" campaign
> at any public display. We (as AFOLs) can raise the issue that Lego has
> created. Be as negative as you want to be.
~~snip~~
It is NOT my intention or goal to be negative. TLC does NOT need my help to
ruin their brand image. They have proven they can do it all by themselves.
As evidence, TLC threw out a perfectly good 25-year old trademark when they
stopped using the name DUPLO for their preschool products. The name Explore, as
someone else pointed on on Lugnet several weeks ago, sounds like a program on
your computer, not a building toy by Lego. I will never understand the
marketing 'genius' behind that ill-fated decision. Someone should be taken out
back and shot to the death for that one, IMO.
__Kevin Salm__
PS. I am happy to report that the latest batch of packaging for Explore
products is now dual-branded. The Duplo name and logo have proudly returned.
Finally, someone at TLC got some sense!
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That is just it Kevin, nobody at Lego got any sense. They just responded to
the one and only thing that corporate robots instantly respond to. The loss
of money, especially on the scale that Lego did last year, is a powerful
thing. It will likely take a much bigger loss than 2003 for them to change
back this color fiasco.
Greg
"Kevin Salm" <kdsalm@dreamscape.com> wrote in message
news:Ht7EvH.u6B@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.lego, Mark Rideout wrote:
> > In lugnet.lego, Adrian Egli wrote:
> > > In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe public events are what we need to do most.
> > >
> > > As you said, LEGO is doing a rather poor job getting word out to the • public of
> > > this color change. I have told many of my cousin's kids if they buy a • new set
> > > with grey bricks it might not match what they have.
> > >
> > > Events give us AFOLs who do these shows the opportunity to tell the • public of
> > > this screw up. Right now, it appears only those who are on LUGNET and • similar
> > > sites are making our opinions expressed to LEGO. But as for that kid • looking at
> > > the sets in a Target, TRU, wherever, he has no clue of this color • change. At
> > > events or stores we can tell those kids (or better yet their parents!) • what they
> > > will get if they buy that new set.
> > >
> > > Someone has to educate the consumer and if it's not LEGO or us, who • will it be??
> > >
> > > Adr.
> >
> > This is actually a very valid point. We can make our own "marketing" • campaign
> > at any public display. We (as AFOLs) can raise the issue that Lego has
> > created. Be as negative as you want to be.
>
> ~~snip~~
>
> It is NOT my intention or goal to be negative. TLC does NOT need my help • to
> ruin their brand image. They have proven they can do it all by • themselves.
>
> As evidence, TLC threw out a perfectly good 25-year old trademark when • they
> stopped using the name DUPLO for their preschool products. The name • Explore, as
> someone else pointed on on Lugnet several weeks ago, sounds like a program • on
> your computer, not a building toy by Lego. I will never understand the
> marketing 'genius' behind that ill-fated decision. Someone should be • taken out
> back and shot to the death for that one, IMO.
>
> __Kevin Salm__
>
>
> PS. I am happy to report that the latest batch of packaging for Explore
> products is now dual-branded. The Duplo name and logo have proudly • returned.
> Finally, someone at TLC got some sense!
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In lugnet.lego, Paulo Renato wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Gregory Muri wrote:
> > Problems is that if AFOL's took this approach, it would then be our fault
> > Lego continued to have a financial decline. No doubt in my mind that is how
> > it would go down. Clearly TLC has no intention of admitting the severity of
> > the color changes.
> >
> > Greg
>
>
> I wouldn't like to see TLC going down but, what else would it take to them to go
> back on this issue?? (Once they can't hear us...)
>
> Paulo Renato
I think it would be interesting to know just how much each and every AFOL spends
each week/month/year on Lego. Just to try to gauge how much in potential lost
sales the company would incure. Would it be significant?
Have any Bricklink stores curbed their spending? I know they buy dozens or more
sets at a time.
For instance, I know I spent just over $11,000.00 last year. Most of that was
spent at the retail level, but not at retail prices. HAIL, the clearance sale.
A smaller amount was spent on the secondary market such as BL and evilbay.
Now I realize not everyone here is just going to stop buying new sets because of
the color change. I for one will not be buying any new sets. Well, until they
are 75% off.
Steve
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In lugnet.lego, Gregory Muri wrote:
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That is just it Kevin, nobody at Lego got any sense. They just responded to
the one and only thing that corporate robots instantly respond to. The loss
of money, especially on the scale that Lego did last year, is a powerful
thing. It will likely take a much bigger loss than 2003 for them to change
back this color fiasco.
Greg
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See... I disagree with you on this point. The poor sales of 2004 will have
nothing to do with color change. We, the AFOLs may cease buying because of this
fact, but that is a drop in the bucket of problems, a mere 5% loss in a world of
hurt for TLG.
To h@#$ with the color change, let’s say it never happened. OK, now look at the
product lines for what they are. They’re action figures. There is no building
or creativity.
The New Castle (Big Figs): Galidor Redux.
(OK, so maybe not as bad as Galidor, but still a far cry from LEGO’s core
values)
The New Castle (Minifig): Can You Say Playing Our Children For Imbeciles?
Make & Create - Creator: Closest to Core Value We Have
Make & Create - Designer: Nothing But Specialized Bits and Bobs
(To me, these sets are equivalent to selling an older bucket with nothing but
Antennae and Radar Dishes; wonderful for the collector, wonderful for flashy
factor, horrid for creativity without basic bricks to augment)
Make & Create - Technical Wonders: A Beast Slain
(This is the carcass of what LEGO Technic used to be. Not a studded beam in
sight, not a Technic trademark look at all.)
Racers: The This-Theme-Should-Have-Been-Killed-Long-Ago Theme
(Again, great for a collector adding to a collection, horrid for a child just
starting one. I also have a big question about the K’nex construction of the RC
Cars.)
Alpha Team - Arctic: The Award Winner for Closest to LEGO Core Values
(The transformations really show what LEGO is about: Transience and Change)
Spiderman: Dumbing Down The License and Tossing Bones
(compare the lamppost and hydrant in 4853 with last year’s models. Complexity
wise, they are down the tubes. Add to this the 4+ sets based on a movie rated
PG-13 and a decidedly realistically violent comic. “Train Rescue” is a bone to
say that Train is still alive in Town, other than Potter.)
Bionicle: Et Tu, Technic.
(Bionicle, IMHO, was the rifle blast that killed traditional Technic, and the
new sets are just the final nails in the coffins.
Color Change Aside, TLG can’t blame this years losses on 5% of the market. When
they lose this next year, the blood isn’t on the Color R&D Workers’ hands, but
rather the Set Designers and Management who have killed the brand’s creativity
by failing to CHALLENGE today’s children, instead, feeding them cookie cutter
fads and nothing else.
The color revert will never occur. There are far bigger problems at hand.
-John Rudy
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In lugnet.events.brickfest, Kevin Salm wrote:
> 3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their
> formula, lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original
> formula. It seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone
> at TLC.
This isn't necessarily true, but it's got some good parallels. Popular wisdom
holds that Coca-Cola pretended to change their formula to be more "Pepsi-like,"
then staged giant well-publicized "protests" against themselves. They got a
couple months of huge publicity about how great the original formula tasted, and
how foul the Pepsi taste was.
After a suitable period, they brought back "Classic" Coke, which was similar to
the original formula but with several ingredients replaced with cheaper
substitutes, most notably replacing sucrose with fructose. If you have some old
original-formula Cokes and can compare the taste with the new "Classic" Cokes,
the quality difference is immediately obvious. "New Coke" was a ruse to
disguise the formula change and get massive publicity as a side benefit.
(The popularity of this story has generated enough negative PR that Coke has
started mixing small amounts of sucrose back into the formula so that they can
include "fructose and/or sucrose" on the ingredients list.)
Whether or not New Coke was a brilliant marketing ploy or just the world's
luckiest mistake, Classic Coke's comeback against Pepsi in 1986 was nothing
short of unbelievable, and I can easily imagine some Lego marketeer thinking
it'd be clever to try and duplicate it. Destroy the most basic-utility Lego
colors, replace them with Mega Bloks versions, and wait for the fans to freak
out. Pray for at least a couple of good anti-New-Lego protest rallies in the
spirit of 1985, get a bunch of publicity about the greatness of original Lego
was and the foulness of Mega Bloks. After a prudent delay, some prominent exec
steps forward and admits that they underestimated humanity's deep and abiding
emotional attachment to classic Lego; classic colors are brought back, the world
rejoices, Lego sales rebound, Mega Bloks is crushed, marketing gets a high-five,
and carte blanche is issued to degrade quality in all other areas because
everyone's too busy focusing on the color to notice.
This theory is more than a little far-fetched, since the last decade tends to
refute the idea that this level of thought goes into their corporate decisions.
But it's a lot more attractive to me than the only alternative theory, which is
that Lego actively hates its fans and acts purely out of a malicious desire to
cause pain and suffering in its customer base. Either way, the New Coke
precedent shows that it's in the best interest of ourselves and the company to
go nuts and be as vocal as possible in our protest of the changes. Especially
if we remember to sneak in frequent interjections about how much Mega Bloks
suck.
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In lugnet.lego, John M. Rudy wrote:
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In lugnet.lego, Gregory Muri wrote:
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That is just it Kevin, nobody at Lego got any sense. They just responded to
the one and only thing that corporate robots instantly respond to. The loss
of money, especially on the scale that Lego did last year, is a powerful
thing. It will likely take a much bigger loss than 2003 for them to change
back this color fiasco.
Greg
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See... I disagree with you on this point. The poor sales of 2004 will have
nothing to do with color change. We, the AFOLs may cease buying because of
this fact, but that is a drop in the bucket of problems, a mere 5% loss in a
world of hurt for TLG.
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a few idle remarks from the peanut gallery
Many (most ?) AFOLs buy at clearance. Because certain AFOLs stop buying at
clearance, doesn’t mean that the stuff will just sit there and go unsold
forever. Some clearanced stuff moves back up the food chain to EB, some to BL,
and some to places like flea markets. That one destination decides to boycott,
will have little or no effect on the parent 2-years hence trying to find that
discontinued (and needed) set which WM, KM, TRU, Target (et al) have dumped to
clearance. They will buy *that* set because the kid wants it. The stuff will
still most likely percolate thru the food chain, just that AFOLs won’t be taking
so much from the ‘clearance’ buffet. (and we are 6-12-18 months from when the
new colors actually make it to clearance.)
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To h@#$ with the color change, let’s say it never happened. OK, now look at
the product lines for what they are. They’re action figures. There is no
building or creativity.
The New Castle (Big Figs): Galidor Redux.
(OK, so maybe not as bad as Galidor, but still a far cry from LEGO’s core
values)
The New Castle (Minifig): Can You Say Playing Our Children For Imbeciles?
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I still prefer the term ‘Castleonicle’. Bionicle has won the battle for hearts
of minds of many of the primary target audience, now TLC is trying to work the
same magic with Castle. It may be heresy to some, but it may be a smart move to
others.
Ray
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In lugnet.lego, Mark Rideout wrote:
> This is actually a very valid point. We can make our own "marketing" campaign at
> any public display. We (as AFOLs) can raise the issue that Lego has created. Be
> as negative as you want to be. Tell kids that their old sets no longer are
> “compatible” with the new sets.
Wow. You mean all of a sudden the bricks stopped fitting together? You mean
all of a sudden the new dark gray can't be used with the old blue, red, and
black? Do the new gray bricks actually REPEL the old gray colors?
Amazing! I didn't know that!
> ... Tell them that they are wasting their money
> buying new sets.
Wow! You mean if they buy a $10 Alpha Team set, it isn't actually worth $10?
Fascinating!
If they buy ANOTHER, $20 World City set, the two together are *ACTUALLY*
*WORTHLESS*, and whatever they buy next year *ACTUALLY* *WILL* *NOT*
*INTERCONNECT* with what they bought this year?
Wow! Incredible revelations abound!
> ... Heck even point people to alternatives vs. buying new sets –
> show them Bricklink as a way that they can buy old gray and brown colors.
Wow! You mean the average buyer in the aisles of Toys R Us - say, for example,
Grandma buying a burthday gift for Johnny - would actually respond positively to
the suggestion of going to website, and buying some nice dog-chewed light grey
(that's CLASSIC LIGHT GRAY (c)2004 ANAL-RETENTIVE LEGO FANS, INC.) 1x2s, in lots
of 50 or more, would be a g-r-r-R-REAT alternative to picking up a nice colorful
World City boxed set for Johnny?
> ... Get
> the message out there! We can even do radio spots like "public service
> announcements" -- maybe even getting on talk radio/TV and let them hear our
> outcry!
NPR is waiting!
> In the manner that we can positively affect kid's opinions, we can just as
> easily put a negative spin on their opinions.
>
> Of course we don’t have to do this.
You mean you *don't* have to lie to Lego consumers? Yay!
No wonder most large companies considers most AFOToys opinions to be worthless.
Turns out they actually are!
Kevin
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In lugnet.lego, Kevin Johnston wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Mark Rideout wrote:
> > In the manner that we can positively affect kid's opinions, we can just as
> > easily put a negative spin on their opinions.
> >
> > Of course we don’t have to do this.
>
> You mean you *don't* have to lie to Lego consumers? Yay!
>
> No wonder most large companies considers most AFOToys opinions to be worthless.
> Turns out they actually are!
I am so with you on this one Kevin. AFOLs with big collections and intentions of
building very special MOCs are a totally different consumer to the average kid
or parent buying Lego.
A lot of the AFOLs here are annoyed about losing the opportunity to buy more
bricks in some useful colours. That's reasonable.
TLC has made some mistakes in the past. Some of them were "called" accurately by
AFOLs (such as Duplo->Explorer) and others were not (Bionicle). And some sets
which were applauded by AFOLs have probably not been a runaway success for TLC.
This is also reasonable.
Its bordering on reasonable to imagine a flawed focus group process to validate
the new colors.
But its not reasonable to assume that the needs, wants and tastes of a kid or
parent are anything like that of an AFOL.
Kids don't have as many bricks in their collection, so less they have less
"investment" in the old colors.
Kids aren't planning on artistic or accurate MOCs like AFOLs.
Kids may actually like the new brighter colours better.
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"Kevin Salm" <kdsalm@dreamscape.com> wrote in message
news:Ht7EJ5.s62@lugnet.com...
[ ... snipped ... ]
>
> When laundry detergent or toothpaste or automobiles or shampoo or razors • or
> pizza are changed, the marketing departments and advertising agencies • involved
> always ramp up huge campains claiming "NEW AND IMPROVED" etc. Each small • change
> commands gigantic expenditures for new packaging, new advertising, and the • like.
> They get the word out.
[ ... snipped ... ]
Did TLC make a big splash about the color change at the Toy Fair this past
weekend? If the change really is for the reasons which Jake outlined then I
would expect TLC would be disclosing and promoting it at the Toy Fair and be
actievely hyping it to their retail customers.
Does anyone know if it was even mentioned at the Toy Fair?
Mike
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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In lugnet.lego, Kevin Johnston wrote:
(snip)
Very harsh/sarcastic tone, Kevin(1) but I have to agree with the substance. I do
not like the color change one bit but I don't see myself standing in aisles
telling people not to buy stuff!
The bricks still interlock, people.
We can suggest that LEGO did this wrong, that they should have
researched/marketed/communicated (internally/externally) better... but actively
trying to drive sales to competitors?
That just seems excessively harsh to me. This whole thread seems a bit strident,
actually. Any chance for a bit calmer approach, people?
I have lots more to say about this and other topics but am still trying to dig
out from under. I am going to try to reconstruct from memory the questions and
answers that I lost, unless someone else with better memory does it first...
1 - kinda goes hand in hand with some of the other very harsh tones used by
others in this thread, I guess... so I'm not actually complaining, just
remarking.
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In lugnet.lego, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> Very harsh/sarcastic tone, Kevin(1) but I have to agree with the substance. I do
> not like the color change one bit but I don't see myself standing in aisles
> telling people not to buy stuff!
>
> The bricks still interlock, people.
Having seen the new colours for the first time when I got out here, I have to
agree. Yes, the colours changed. Yes, I would prefer if they had stayed the
same. No, the world has not come to a crashing halt because of it.
Will I buy "new" (post 2003) lego? Yes. Will this affect what I purchase? Not
much, I don't think. Will this affect what I build? No, because I have enough
bricks that it is getting to be excessive for me to purchase more without a
project in mind anyway.
YMMV, but I don't find this the end of the world. I already have several
variant colours in my bins, and don't worry TOO much about it.
James Powell
(and thanks Lar++ for trying to transcribe for those of us who could not attend
BF PDX -we live in a inperfect world, and sometimes stuff happens...)
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In lugnet.lego, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Kevin Johnston wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> Very harsh/sarcastic tone, Kevin(1) but I have to agree with the substance. I do
> not like the color change one bit but I don't see myself standing in aisles
> telling people not to buy stuff!
>
> The bricks still interlock, people.
>
> We can suggest that LEGO did this wrong, that they should have
> researched/marketed/communicated (internally/externally) better... but actively
> trying to drive sales to competitors?
>
> That just seems excessively harsh to me. This whole thread seems a bit strident,
> actually. Any chance for a bit calmer approach, people?
>
> I have lots more to say about this and other topics but am still trying to dig
> out from under. I am going to try to reconstruct from memory the questions and
> answers that I lost, unless someone else with better memory does it first...
>
> 1 - kinda goes hand in hand with some of the other very harsh tones used by
> others in this thread, I guess... so I'm not actually complaining, just
> remarking.
I do not, and have not, in any way, shape, or form, told people not to buy the
new sets. I do not even mention compatability because that is not an issue. I
simply tell them that the colors will not match previously purchased sets and
leave them to their own volition.
I have never mentioned to anyone in the aisles my personal distaste of the new
colors. With the exception of the manager at KB.
Steven Weiser
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>
> 3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their formula,
> lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original formula. It
> seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at TLC.
Actually the Coca-Cola formula has changed many times over the years (for
example they switched from sugar to corn syrup when sugar prices went up) and
only the New Coke was advertised.
> 4. Why has this color change NOT been marketed?? IF it is such a good thing,
> such as "New and Improved Colors" then why is it not presented as such??
>
> This lack of marketing and communication about a product change means to me,
> personally, that Lego is trying to sneak it in the back door. Either that, or
> their marketing experts and consultants were asleep during Marketing 101.
Just like Coke does not advertise its minor changes than LEGO does not advertise
its minor color changes.
By the way Lego has changed color a number of times in the past (although I am
not sure whether some of those changes were due to quality control issues or
actual concious changes) The only reason I think it is such a big deal now is
that the colors they did change are the most commonly used by MOC builders.
Bartek
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I commend Jake on his great efforts to educate TLG about AFOLs. But as he
himself has said many times, it’s hard to get the battleship to turn. In the
corporate giant’s mind, we are only 5% and we will always only be 5%. Even
if TLG does consider us in future decisions, what’s the best we can hope for?
5% that’s what. 5% of any consideration will go to AFOL interests; in
other words, TLG’s decision making process will, at its core, be exactly like
it is now. The best we can hope for is more polite damage control, i.e.
maybe the company will have enough consideration/respect for us to tell us in
advance about the new improved change in the brick dimensions or the new
improved stud shape/separation or the discontinuation of ...
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Any company that disregards %5 of its customers is bound to lose money - for
excample the Lego Company;)
If I told my boss “ups I made one of our wells blow up, but it was only %5 of
our revenues” I would be fired so fast I would not know what hit me.
Bartek
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3. Has anyone at Lego heard of Coca-Cola?? They tried to change their
formula, lost huge amounts of money, and SWITCHED BACK to the original
formula. It seems any lesson taught there has not been learned by anyone at
TLC.
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Coke must not be available in Billund. :)
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Funny thing about Coke, Denmark, and LEGO. When they flew us over (business
class) on KLM in 1992 from NY to Copenhagen, they served Coke and LEGO on board.
But for the short hop from Copenhagen to Billund, the local airline served the
national brand “Jolly Cola”, for which they charged by the bottle! The whole
time we were at LEGOLand, it was Jolly Cola or nothing -- except for the party
on the final night when they imported Coke and hip hop. When we returned to
Copenhagen and picked up our rental car for a week of tooling around Europe, the
first place we visited was a Danish McDonald’s -- to have a Coke (Jolly Cola was
not a winner).
When we went back in 2001, we noticed that Jolly Cola had disappeared from the
park and had been replaced everywhere by Coke.
Personally, I survived the US Coca Cola reformulation debacle by having enough
Coke stashed in cans to provide 1 a day during the entire shortage. What I found
particulary intolerable was not being able to have a Coke with a hotdog during a
baseball game. Alas, things soon got even worse despite the return of Classic
Coke: The Angels were bought by Disney and Disney soon concluded a 10 year deal
to sell only Pepsi at all their parks and sports venues, which included Anaheim
Stadium. Grrrhh. The moral of the story: Be happy with the new grays, lest TLC
get bought up by Megablocks who convert all LEGO colors to new shades that vary
with the season of the year!!!
-Ted
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