Subject:
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Re: Israel and the Palestinians
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 28 Oct 2000 05:52:30 GMT
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Viewed:
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732 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dan Boger writes:
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 06:05:41AM +0000, Erik Olson wrote:
> > Larry, I think you overestimate the Israeli's "rule of law". Sitting here on the
> > other side of the world, that looks like the weak link. I've always had canny
> > admiration for their prowess, but there's a little bit of thug on their side
> > too.
>
> From my experience of living in Israel for most of my life, I think Israel
> is ruled by law. Explain why it's the "weak link"?
To begin to explain, "rule of law" refers to the Enlightment concept "a
government of laws rather than men." It means impartial enforcement of the law
without the enforcers favoring their own friends, relatives, etc. (Another
question is the justice of a law, but even an unfair law that is impartially
enforced is better than a government run on favoritism.)
Nobody here is disputing that Israel has quite a good form of government, as
governments go.
It was Jerry Pournelle's report (in the link I gave) which argues that if
Israeli police can harass and strip-search Canadian and American delegates
without provocation, which happened to him and his party, how can they be
impartial toward even Israeli citizens of Palestinian descent?
That story implies that the agent was not acting according to any law or sense
of justice. And with orders to harass. Hence, government not by laws but by men
(the reverse of the classical statement.)
To close on a humorous note, I think the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy might
summarize this as "Mostly lawful with occasional exceptions." (That fictional
guide is famous for occasional understatements.)
Please do tell me what you think. I've never even been out of my own country,
unless reading books somehow counts a little...
>
> > In the ruling coalition department: consider the recent history of Lebanon
> > before making recommendations. I've only had one semester of Mideast studies so
> > I'll clam up now.
>
> what about the recent history of Lebanon? I've served there in the army,
> and feel that we did what was needed to protect my country and it's citizens
> from terrorist attacks. Please explain?
I was hinting at old governments *of* Lebanon. Larry's suggestion of a
coalition government between hostile and religious factions was glib, and you
could maybe see the difficulties in that suggestion by reviewing some which
have tried to make it work in the past 50 years. Nothing to do with Israeli
"relations" with Lebanon. And I've been to exactly one 2 hour lecture on the
subject, maybe Larry's got even less. Maybe you could tell us something.
Finally, it always seems ridiculous to me how many Americans think they know
what to do or who to blame to "fix" the Mideast. President Clinton is the
grossest example. Larry's a moderate example who thinks he knows what ought to
have been done 100 or 50 years ago by Britain in Palestine. I have to laugh
because I am constantly hearing Americans expound on what should have been done
however many thousand years ago. As I said Larry's a moderate example. I try
not to get involved but I guess I already am.
Sometime next year I'm going to quit my job and spend all my savings traveling.
-Erik
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Israel and the Palestinians
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| (...) _can_ harass? the police here, in the US, _can_ harass anyone walking down the street. Doesn't mean they do, or that it's allowed, right? (...) the story does imply that, without any sort of reasoning. "... I cannot think he was acting without (...) (24 years ago, 29-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Israel and the Palestinians
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| (...) From my experience of living in Israel for most of my life, I think Israel is ruled by law. Explain why it's the "weak link"? (...) what about the recent history of Lebanon? I've served there in the army, and feel that we did what was needed (...) (24 years ago, 25-Oct-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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