 | | Re: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution —David Laswell
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| | | (...) So was I, but it appears to be white-supremecist propoganda, so... (...) Trumped by virtue of the fact that there were movements to include specific mention to Christianity (if not any particular denomination thereof), while there don't appear (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Gosh, you haven't even begun to see me zealous. :-) (...) And the SC had the opportunity to make a ruling supporting the common man's stance on the wording of the pledge and chose to stick to the limited legal point. While I agree with their (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | (...) Does that make you an (URL)? (...) Get yourself some open toed sandals. ;) Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Only to the extent that all sane atheists are also agnostic. In other words, I don't think so. I'm comfortable with the assumption that there are no supernatural phenomena based on the (lack of) evidence. I'm just reasonable, too. Chris (20 years ago, 26-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —David Laswell
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| | | | (...) Firstly, I think "common man" is a bit inappropriate here, since it very inaccurately suggests that the majority of Americans are opposed to pledging "Under God" (remember that many non-church-goers still consider themselves to be religious). (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Actually, I think you need to reread what I wrote. I think the common man's stance is that the POA is fine as is. That's what the court could have asserted. (...) And this "difference between belief and fact" is what you're claiming underpins (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —David Laswell
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| | | | (...) Whoops, I did misread what you wrote. Anyways, the bit about the Bush v. Gore Florida ruling still shows that they have no problem turning you away on a mere technicality, but then deny your claim later. And you know what? I'm perfectly okay (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Mark Bellis
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| | | | (...) I would question whether you mean "religion" or "God" here. Faith in religion is what I call "Churchianity". It's no better than superstition, like athletes who always go through the same routine before the race starts. As a Christian, I have (...) (20 years ago, 14-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —David Laswell
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| | | | | (...) I meant a little of both. Some denominations are less tied up in religious rituals than others (RCA vs Roman Catholicism, for instance), and just because you don't follow a particular denomination doesn't mean that you don't have your own (...) (20 years ago, 15-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) What is the nature of this relationship? Do you and God go out for pizza together? Who picks up the check? My example is admittedly facetious, but the underlying question is sound. Do you consider yourself to have a "relationship" with anyone (...) (20 years ago, 17-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Mark Bellis
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| | | | (...) A very big question in few words! The relationship is multi-faceted and includes the following things: Saviour: how you relate to someone who has saved your life by sacrificing theirs. Father: including support, protection, provision and love. (...) (20 years ago, 17-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Absence of faith in something leads to faith in nothing. If you didn't understand rudimentary celestial mechanics, you would continue on with no faith that _tomorrow_ that sun was just not going to rise. Every time someone told you that (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | (...) In the face of inconsistent sunrise results, you might decide that the celestial mechanics were invalid and that you cannot prove whether the sun will rise tomorrow, thus being agnostic. If the results were consistently wrong, you would just (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Johannes Koehler
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| | | | Hello! Sorry for chiming in but this topic sounds interesting. Of cóurse I didn't read the whole thread so please ignore my post if its a repost of the contents. (...) How about The Life™? I can't believe that's just the result of a thunderbolt (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Hello Jojo: By all means, feel free to chime in. That's what the forum is for! Regarding the thunderbolt & amino acids, you're referring to Miller's experiments in the 1950's. These experiments revealed much that was promising, though they (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | (...) Isn't that something like comparing an individual's ability to reproduce the complete works of Shakespeare from memory with a fleet of monkeys being able to randomly bang them out on typewriters? (...) It would be more significant if he'd (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —J. Spencer Rezkalla
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Your analogy is a rather poor one, because you imply that either sentient capabilities are required to assemble a complex form directly from simple parts or a (complex) assembler would have to be randomly generated. First, most abiogenesis (...) (20 years ago, 19-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) For a thorough debunking of the "infinite monkeys" myth, I recommend Richard Dawkins' book "The Blind Watchmaker," which gives a great explanation of why that model is flawed as a representation of evolution or of the origins of life. Beyond (...) (20 years ago, 19-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | | | | (...) Surely the models can be allowed to evolve. Then models with God as the designer can be compared with models without a designer and the results compared. i.e. you can determine for yourself whether it makes more sense for there to be a God who (...) (20 years ago, 19-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Evolution... it never ends —J. Spencer Rezkalla
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| | | | | | | | | (...) You are free to suggest any model or theory you want. But if you want to challenge an existing scientific model, then you need to present an alternative SCIENTIFIC model. So far no one has presented a scientific model for intelligent design. (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Evolution... it never ends —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is the point of Creation (and religion) not that it needs no "SCIENTIFIC model"? It is a simple solution to a complex question: “What am I ?”. (...) My body hair, nipples, appendix and coccyx all appear to have no (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Evolution... it never ends —Tim David
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) They are all (excepting nipples) vestigal remnants of things that were useful in the past (warmth,digestion,tail). The original need for those things has disapeared and in fact they have proved better not to have so natural selection has bred (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Evolution... it never ends —J. Spencer Rezkalla
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Of course, which is why such "solutions" have no place being taught in a public science classrooms. They belong in church instead. Keep in mind this is pretty much an issue being driven by Creationists - not all religious people in general. (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Evolution... it never ends —Tim David
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| | | | | | | | | | Do you have a "not so well designed" case (...) I do, teeth! if they were well designed they would be made of something that is not affected by food! Tim (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) In order to test your suggestion, I must ask that you present to me something in nature that, in your judgment, was not designed by God and also something that, in your view, *was* designed by God. Are you able to provide examples of each? If (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | (...) However, you have to consider the fact that the experiments were performed already knowing such compounds existed, whereas the billions of years of evolution probably had no such knowledge. ROSCO (20 years ago, 19-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Johannes Koehler
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| | | | | | hello! (...) Great! In this case I come up with another provocative thesis: If there was no God that gave Life™ this life wouldn't have any value at all. In that case life was just matter that accidentally interachts in a way predetermined by laws (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) You've set up your claim as a one-premiss argument: P1: God did not create Life ---therefore---...--- C1: Life has no value However, this statement is true only if and only if life's value must be injected by an outside agency, be it God or (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —David Eaton
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| | | | | | | (...) I think the common misconception is that most normal people can't understand why they care about things. IE "Why do I care if spotted owls become extinct? Why do I care if someone I don't know gets tortured?" Notice, it's not "Why *should* I (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) God was always threatening to do that anyway, so that's nothing new... God: Wars, torture, greed, stupidity, short-sightedness, vanity...I've put up with these forever and still haven't brought things to an end. But these humans have gone too (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —John Neal
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd wrote: (snip) (...) You lost me at "Final Fantasy", GEDA (not to be confused with "Yoda"-- AFAIK). I am not a "Gamer", (not to be confused with a "Goer" -- Are you uh, uh a Goer?), so I may need a (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) "God not only plays dice, he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen." -S.Hawkins -Any role-playing Game-Master Perhaps you should get religion and become a gamer. :-) Divine revelation and interpretation: The Green-Eyed Devil's (...) (20 years ago, 20-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —John Neal
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd wrote: (snip) (...) Isn't he that guy who is lousy at winning bets? (...) Well I have a tough enough time IRL so I'm not privy to this world. Perhaps that is why there are such things? :-) (...) I'm (...) (20 years ago, 21-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) Actually, considering he has been rolling dice with death for 40 years and surviving, I'd have to disagree with that. (...) You weren't paying attention. :-) (...) "Doom of the Gods." Gotterdammerung, but I don't remember how to spell that. (...) (20 years ago, 21-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Atheism (was: Santorum Fails In His Effort To Pervert The Constitution) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Good point. Of course, I was intimating to (URL) this>. (...) Sorry, I have a cold. ;-) (...) lol Some help Google™ was! I was (URL) HERE!> Guess I need to bone up on the ol' Norse Mythology! (...) You obviously never saw PYTHON. I bought the (...) (20 years ago, 22-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: Atheism —Don Heyse
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| | | | (...) Ferget about that one. I'd actually be more worried that someone does re-enact that in a lab before we're prepared for the consequences. And not so long ago you may have said the same thing about just the thunderbolt part. How 'bout this? What (...) (20 years ago, 18-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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