 | | Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | Thanks to recent lugnet.FAQ rumblings and a nice chain of serendipitious references, I have been reminded of Extropianism. Robert Munafo's pages have an interesting summation (URL) is quite Libertarian, and like Libertarianism, puts a great deal of (...) (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jeremy H. Sproat
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| | | | | (...) It certainly sells better on the silver screen than optimism. :-P Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) You have to have adversity for the hero to overcome, but in the end you have a happy ending, or your picture won't do as well. (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) Of course, non-happy-endings usually end up being much better films.. Jasper (25 years ago, 26-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) As determined by what? Film studies majors? Happy endings sell better. (25 years ago, 26-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) As determined by _me_. Duh. Jasper (25 years ago, 17-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Well, that's fine then. What you like yourself is your own biz and that's as it should be. You are the best judge of what YOU like, after all, unless there's something sick and wrong (quoting John Neal) with you :-). But I thought we were (...) (25 years ago, 18-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message news:37B9F885.8F93F0...ger.net... (...) What a very Libertarian statement. It exudes great faith in the masses. I can't say I'd agree, given the popularity of, well, just about every fad ever to (...) (25 years ago, 19-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) Thanks. I appreciate your recognising it as such. Really. (...) Whereas the alternative is to say you have no faith in them? How very elitist of you. Next I suppose you'll be telling me that government can make better decisions about my life (...) (25 years ago, 19-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message news:37BBD004.F53CFD...ger.net... (...) I'm saying that the masses prompted the movie makers in these two cases to dumb down their movies and lower the quality because they didn't like the endings. (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | They compromised their artistic integrity for $$$. I think *they* would perceive themselves as "artists", and not merely capitalists. An artist works to express him/herself, not to make money (starving artist idea). The more an artist produces what (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Stephen Jacquot
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) On the other hand, some artists create art to evoke particular responses from their audience. If the desired response isn't forthcoming, it's a poor artist that blames the audience. A good artist will revise the piece until it works as (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Is it possible to evoke *a* particular response? Unless the response you want is for people to give you money for your work. (...) A good artist IMHO works independently of his audience. Pop artists might be a different story. -John (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Stephen Jacquot
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, suppose you wanted to make an anti-war movie, and the test audience came out of the theater laughing and playing mock war. Would you conclude that you had done something wrong, or that the audience was just stupid and incapable of (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —John DiRienzo
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| | | | | | | | | | John Neal wrote in message <37BF0506.AE7F8075@u...st.net>... (...) The (...) like (...) I guess there is an art in getting rich, too. George Lucas seems to have it down pat. If the guy wants to make money (most people in Hollywood (or anywhere else) (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'll grant that they may well have changed the endings. But what of it? Who is to say that the ending they chose is "lower quality"? How do you define quality in this context? George Lucas is free to choose to organize his films however he (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I apply the "in my living room" rule to art. If I'd be proud to have it displayed in my living room it's valuable art. If not, it may still be art, just not in my living room. Lots of the junk you find on college campuses, in fact most of it, (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message news:37BF2A50.B6DC18...ger.net... (...) Quality takes time and effort. You can't just throw something together and have it be quality, unless you're some kind of genius. In films, quality can be (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Agree with everything you say in that paragraph. But a film can still be low quality in my eyes even if there was a lot of time and money spent on it, and the technicians knew their craft. Consider "Waterworld". Conversely, a film can be high (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I would argue that. I would also say that while the market _is_ what should determine what gets made, it's not the same as an objective quality metric. It's a popularity metric. Due to preferences and finances and whole slew of other (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | | | Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message news:37C6AA90.8AAC20...pse.net... (...) Here's the million dollar qustion: how can the general public be competent enough to be an adequate judge of movie quality (or of political (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I would say that they are an adequate judge of both. They may spend their cash on each as they see fit. And they're wrong on both counts. --Chris (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Because it's an opinion, and thus subject to polling (in the form of box office receipts), rather than proving or disproving (...) Ditto, although I'd say right now the system is rigged so the GP doesn't get a fair chance to say what they (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Sometimes I'm not so sure Lucas is motivated purely by money. He could make a mint right now if he released the first 3 movies on DVD, then PM next year, but he won't. He isn't going to release them till they're all done. Will he make a (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Jesse Long
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| | | | | | | | | | Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote in message news:slrn7rvvio.5kv....UTK.EDU... (...) So now it's not just money, it's ego? Is that better? Jesse (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | | | | | Who cares what motivation was behind George Lucas movie making attempts? I like them, I found them entertaining, and if he profits from that, good for him. I am just glad that he made TLG make real sets again! Scott S. (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Dunno. I'd be personally happier if Lucas would be a nice greedy person and take my $100 or so for the first 4 SW movies right now instead of in 2005 (or whenever it is). I'd rather him be motivated by money in this than by his need to control (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How to decide what art is worth (was Re: Extropianism —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) Why does Lucas *need* to do that? (Or anything else for that matter?) Isn't what you really meant to say instead: that you personally would be happier with Lucas's movies if he spent less time pandering to the audience and weaving racist (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Kya Morden
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| | | | | | | (...) That would of been cool. One of the reasons I like Babylon 5, major powers actually FALL, and not in a simple, oh well, we blew up X base and that it...wait, that's how the Shadow war ended. Stupid Shadow war ending. Anyway, I had the (...) (25 years ago, 2-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) Pika Pikachu? Jasper (25 years ago, 2-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Extropianism —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | I will look at it soon, right now its off to a wedding! (NOT MINE, yet!) Scott Sanburn (...) (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Extropianism —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | Extropians Rock! (...) is really just Max More's (he's the founder of the movement) summation of extropianism, but it's a great start. I was on the extropians mailing list shortly after it started in '91 or '92 (I don't recall) and stayed with it (...) (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Extropianism —Patricia Schempp
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| | | | | Have you ever considered just going by "Larry the Libertarian"? :) (...) (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) No. Why, should I? My initials are already LP... (25 years ago, 16-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Extropianism —John Neal
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| | | | (...) Okay, Lar, I guess I would like to hear why you think goodness is innate? I would think stuff like survival of self would be innate, but that goodness would be a learned trait. We are certainly born innocent but quite selfish to the exclusion (...) (25 years ago, 17-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | Do I smell a troll? (...) I would like to hear the basis for it too. I know that I'm innately good, but I do see an awful lot of seemingly bad people. In many ways I support the LP platform, but I don't think innate goodness is needed for it to (...) (25 years ago, 19-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) ;-) (...) How are you innately good? Is not being good a learned behavior? (...) I know this has been covered elsewhere, but could you distinguish for me the difference between self-interest and selfishness? I agree that selfishness (looking (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | You say this life is meaningless and that you need religion to give your life meaning. You say that you don't know what's after this life. Fine. You are welcome to your small view of this existance and your problems. But I ain't buying what you're (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) Funny, I think people who don't ponder these questions have a small view of this existence. I feel as if you are responding to the totality of religion through the ages, not what *I'm* saying. Please try to shed your prejudice against (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Simon Robinson
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| | | | | | | | | (...) The problem with that, as I see it, is that some of the most unhappy people I've met also happened to be devout Christians. I can see that trying to live your life for others (and by extension - as Christians would see it - for God) can give (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Ah, (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) chooo? (25 years ago, 21-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | long story:-p Been a little too busy to respond to all of these discussions the last few days, but they are very interesting and I plan to continue next week. Meanwhile, I will have Larry speaking in tongues after this weekend at the train show;-) (...) (25 years ago, 21-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Like I don't already? My appends are filled with shortcuts, references to past threads and codewords. Some can keep up. Some can't. Life is as it should be. There is no god but USD and Larry is his profit. (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Thank you, Gordon Gekko -John (...) (25 years ago, 23-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) So John, You were going to get back to this? --Chris (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Agreed. I've pondered them. However I got more satisfactory answers than you did. (25 years ago, 22-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: naiveté (was: Re: Extropianism) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) I started out good. I can't explain it. I actually became bad as an adolescent and I'm back to being a good person - but not really as good as I was when I was a kid. Short of having a temper problem, I was ethically perfect. I never stole, I (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Extropianism —Kya Morden
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| | | | (...) Actually, I've read a book called "The Origins of Virture" for my Behavioural Ecology (Sociobiology) class a semester or two ago. The author argued that the reason humans evolved reciprocity behaviour paterns was that in the cases of hunting (...) (25 years ago, 2-Nov-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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