Subject:
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Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:03:07 GMT
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Viewed:
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332 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Grubber writes:
> Hi all,
> I have been observing recent events in the world, and i just have to say, the
> governments in some of the major western powers (UK, Canada, and especially the
> US)have lost their marbles completely. Most other parts of Europe seem to have
> their heads screwed on straight and are not going power-mad.
Although our plight is not as bad as elsewhere, I'm certainty not happy with
the legislation we are rushing through right now. A few hours is being spent
setting aside laws which have worked well for >500 years. By Xmas the UK
will have laws which I thought were reprehensible elsewhere:
http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=14333
Thankfully, the legislation will have a time limit set on it - it will
expire when the limit is reached. However, I think the 5 year limit is far
too long. In the current climate, I could have lived with one year or 6 months.
The irony is that only those immigrants who would suffer persecution if
returned home will be imprisoned without trial here... what is the sense in
that!
The UK perspective:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_1669000/1669175.stm
Scott A
> If people, that is, citizens are dumb enough to allow their governments to
> trample liberties, set up secret military tribunals, use broad definitions of
> terrorists to collar anyone they don't like, detain without charges or trial,
> ask arab citizens to 'help out' (that is, "help us, or else"), well, if people
> are willing to give the givernment all these powers, they are as big a bunch of
> brain-dead mouth-breathing sheep as i feared. I guess John Q Sixpack just
> wants to go back to watching everybody loves Raymond and beating his wife, and
> not actually take a critical look at what the government is doing.
>
> And for those who believe the government, especially the CIA, the gestapo
> (whoops, sorry, the 'department of homeland defense'), the NSA etc., will
> actually give up the sweeping powers they are being given, once the crisis du
> jour has passed, they are sorely mistaken. Frederick Douglass said that power
> concedes nothing without a demand, and the citizens are demanding nothing from
> the government. We, the electorate, regardless of the country, are obligated
> to oppose the government- we harp about piddly tax increases and complain that
> the government is out to get us every day up until sept 11th, but after that,
> oh no, the givernment can do no wrong, they are acting in our best interests.
> What a bunch of damned sheep. Wake up people. Those in power look out for
> number one- themselves.
>
> As for the media, frankly, I am now holding reporters with the same contempt i
> have for real estate agents, accountants/commercepeople, and lawyers. Rather
> than trying to put these events in context, or be critical and keep us informed
> of different sides in an event, most of them, especially the Capitalist News
> Network, are waving the flag, singing hail to the chief and behaving the same
> way they use to criticizee TASS and other 'bad' state news agencies for
> behaving. And whats worse, is that people are swallowing it, hook line and
> sinker.
>
> Do you really think the UK and US government gives a rats ass about the people
> in afghanistan? Hell no! Afghanistan is a means to an end. The end (or at
> least one of them) is oil and energy pipelines/conduits into China and India- a
> potential 2 billion client market. Once they have energy, they will need
> computers, and cellphones, and saturn dealerships, and Gap outlets... If you
> think this is about more than money, you may be interested in this bridge i
> have for sale...
>
> And of course, there is the good old vengeance card. Wake up! You can't bomb
> people into liking you. You can't sanction nations and expect no
> repercussions. They don't realize that Bin Laden has already won- we have
> given away the freedoms we cherish, out of fear, and we are creating the next
> generation of bin Ladens right now, by bombing the hell out of a nation that
> has had 20 years of having the hell bombed out of it. It bothers me a great
> deal that the dead of New York are being dishonored by more killing being done
> in their names. "Their blood cries out from the ground." For justice, not
> revenge. All the killing in the world will never bring them back, and every
> innocnet wh odies in this makes their deaths a little more meaningless. They
> could have been a wakeup call to change, but instead all we have gotten is more
> of the same.
>
> I expect to hear any day that the emperor (whoops, i mean the 'president') has
> dissolved the senate, and that the regional governors are now in direct control
> of their systems.
>
> Ben Franklin said (paraphrased) that "those who would sacrifice freedom for
> security deserve neither freedom nor security." Guess what folks? There is a
> time coming when we are going to have neither. First though, we are going to
> have the peace of the jailer- the Police states of America.
>
> I guess the chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' was layed on us.
>
> I can't believe that I am actually thinking about switching my opposition to
> gun control and the NRA- it appears that we may have to exercise the right to
> bear arms at some point in the coming years, as the government gets more and
> more out of control.
>
> Its the fall of rome.
>
> I wonder what the people who saw the fall coming, like a distant storm, did.
> Did they flee the empire? Did they give up? It makes me wonder what i should
> do. This whole turn of events (even pre-september 11th) has really made me
> wonder if i want kids. I do, but i don't know if i could sentence them to live
> in this world.
>
> God help us.
>
> John
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