Subject:
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Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:41:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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261 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Grubber writes:
> Hi all,
> I have been observing recent events in the world, and i just have to say, the
> governments in some of the major western powers (UK, Canada, and especially the
> US)have lost their marbles completely. Most other parts of Europe seem to have
> their heads screwed on straight and are not going power-mad.
>
> If people, that is, citizens are dumb enough to allow their governments to
> trample liberties, set up secret military tribunals, use broad definitions of
> terrorists to collar anyone they don't like, detain without charges or trial,
> ask arab citizens to 'help out' (that is, "help us, or else"), well, if people
> are willing to give the givernment all these powers, they are as big a bunch of
> brain-dead mouth-breathing sheep as i feared. I guess John Q Sixpack just
> wants to go back to watching everybody loves Raymond and beating his wife, and
> not actually take a critical look at what the government is doing.
It should be noted that ->people<- of the United States rejected the current
guy residing in the White House.
The joke was that as soon as Dubya got power, his first words would be, "Let
the executions begin."
> As for the media, frankly, I am now holding reporters with the same contempt i
> have for real estate agents, accountants/commercepeople, and lawyers. Rather
> than trying to put these events in context, or be critical and keep us informed
> of different sides in an event, most of them, especially the Capitalist News
> Network, are waving the flag, singing hail to the chief and behaving the same
> way they use to criticizee TASS and other 'bad' state news agencies for
> behaving. And whats worse, is that people are swallowing it, hook line and
> sinker.
CNN: America's New (and improved!) War. It sounds like a marketing campaign
for a new laundry detergent (even without my addition).
>
> Do you really think the UK and US government gives a rats ass about the people
> in afghanistan? Hell no! Afghanistan is a means to an end. The end (or at
> least one of them) is oil and energy pipelines/conduits into China and India- a
> potential 2 billion client market. Once they have energy, they will need
> computers, and cellphones, and saturn dealerships, and Gap outlets... If you
> think this is about more than money, you may be interested in this bridge i
> have for sale...
Oops, you went a bit too overboard on the cynicism here, I think. I think
everyone in the entire world is quite content to leave Afghanistan alone as
long as they don't shelter whackoes.
Of course, perhaps Dubya never paid attention to what happened to the Brits
in Afghanistan in the 19th century or the Russians in the 20th.
>
> And of course, there is the good old vengeance card. Wake up! You can't bomb
> people into liking you. You can't sanction nations and expect no
> repercussions. They don't realize that Bin Laden has already won- we have
> given away the freedoms we cherish, out of fear, and we are creating the next
> generation of bin Ladens right now, by bombing the hell out of a nation that
> has had 20 years of having the hell bombed out of it. It bothers me a great
> deal that the dead of New York are being dishonored by more killing being done
> in their names. "Their blood cries out from the ground." For justice, not
> revenge. All the killing in the world will never bring them back, and every
> innocnet wh odies in this makes their deaths a little more meaningless. They
> could have been a wakeup call to change, but instead all we have gotten is more
> of the same.
The whole point of this exercise is to protect the living. You can't bring
them back, but Bin Laden was going to go right on killing. You can't murder
5000 people and not expect repercussions.
>
> I expect to hear any day that the emperor (whoops, i mean the 'president') has
> dissolved the senate, and that the regional governors are now in direct control
> of their systems.
I thought Ashcroft already said that! :-(
>
> Ben Franklin said (paraphrased) that "those who would sacrifice freedom for
> security deserve neither freedom nor security." Guess what folks? There is a
> time coming when we are going to have neither. First though, we are going to
> have the peace of the jailer- the Police states of America.
>
> I guess the chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' was layed on us.
>
> I can't believe that I am actually thinking about switching my opposition to
> gun control and the NRA- it appears that we may have to exercise the right to
> bear arms at some point in the coming years, as the government gets more and
> more out of control.
>
> Its the fall of rome.
No, it's just another round in a long fight. Perhaps we need a rallying cry
like, "Remember the Alamo!" Remember Manzanar? Bet's that Ashcroft herds
his "detainees" there? ;-)
>
> I wonder what the people who saw the fall coming, like a distant storm, did.
> Did they flee the empire? Did they give up? It makes me wonder what i should
> do. This whole turn of events (even pre-september 11th) has really made me
> wonder if i want kids. I do, but i don't know if i could sentence them to live
> in this world.
>
> God help us.
>
> John
No, we just have to help ourselves. Don't like the suspension of right?
Remember that come election time.
Bruce
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