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14991  |  14993
Subject: 
The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:16:01 GMT
Viewed: 
358 times
  
Hi all,
  I have been observing recent events in the world, and i just have to say, the
governments in some of the major western powers (UK, Canada, and especially the
US)have lost their marbles completely.  Most other parts of Europe seem to have
their heads screwed on straight and are not going power-mad.

If people, that is, citizens are dumb enough to allow their governments to
trample liberties, set up secret military tribunals, use broad definitions of
terrorists to collar anyone they don't like, detain without charges or trial,
ask arab citizens to 'help out' (that is, "help us, or else"), well, if people
are willing to give the givernment all these powers, they are as big a bunch of
brain-dead mouth-breathing sheep as i feared.  I guess John Q Sixpack just
wants to go back to watching everybody loves Raymond and beating his wife, and
not actually take a critical look at what the government is doing.

And for those who believe the government, especially the CIA, the gestapo
(whoops, sorry, the 'department of homeland defense'), the NSA etc., will
actually give up the sweeping powers they are being given, once the crisis du
jour has passed, they are sorely mistaken.  Frederick Douglass said that power
concedes nothing without a demand, and the citizens are demanding nothing from
the government.  We, the electorate, regardless of the country, are obligated
to oppose the government- we harp about piddly tax increases and complain that
the government is out to get us every day up until sept 11th, but after that,
oh no, the givernment can do no wrong, they are acting in our best interests.
What a bunch of damned sheep.  Wake up people.  Those in power look out for
number one- themselves.

As for the media, frankly, I am now holding reporters with the same contempt i
have for real estate agents, accountants/commercepeople, and lawyers.  Rather
than trying to put these events in context, or be critical and keep us informed
of different sides in an event, most of them, especially the Capitalist News
Network,  are waving the flag, singing hail to the chief and behaving the same
way they use to criticizee TASS and other 'bad' state news agencies for
behaving.  And whats worse, is that people are swallowing it, hook line and
sinker.

Do you really think the UK and US government gives a rats ass about the people
in afghanistan?  Hell no!  Afghanistan is a means to an end.  The end (or at
least one of them) is oil and energy pipelines/conduits into China and India- a
potential 2 billion client market.  Once they have energy, they will need
computers, and cellphones, and saturn dealerships, and Gap outlets... If you
think this is about more than money, you may be interested in this bridge i
have for sale...

And of course, there is the good old vengeance card.  Wake up!  You can't bomb
people into liking you.  You can't sanction nations and expect no
repercussions.  They don't realize that Bin Laden has already won- we have
given away the freedoms we cherish, out of fear, and we are creating the next
generation of bin Ladens right now, by bombing the hell out of a nation that
has had 20 years of having the hell bombed out of it.  It bothers me a great
deal that the dead of New York are being dishonored by more killing being done
in their names.  "Their blood cries out from the ground."  For justice, not
revenge.  All the killing in the world will never bring them back, and every
innocnet wh odies in this makes their deaths a little more meaningless.  They
could have been a wakeup call to change, but instead all we have gotten is more
of the same.

I expect to hear any day that the emperor (whoops, i mean the 'president') has
dissolved the senate, and that the regional governors are now in direct control
of their systems.

Ben Franklin said (paraphrased) that "those who would sacrifice freedom for
security deserve neither freedom nor security."  Guess what folks?  There is a
time coming when we are going to have neither.  First though, we are going to
have the peace of the jailer- the Police states of America.

I guess the chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' was layed on us.

I can't believe that I am actually thinking about switching my opposition to
gun control and the NRA- it appears that we may have to exercise the right to
bear arms at some point in the coming years, as the government gets more and
more out of control.

Its the fall of rome.

I wonder what the people who saw the fall coming, like a distant storm, did.
Did they flee the empire?  Did they give up?  It makes me wonder what i should
do.  This whole turn of events (even pre-september 11th) has really made me
wonder if i want kids.  I do, but i don't know if i could sentence them to live
in this world.

God help us.

John



Message has 5 Replies:
  Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
 
(...) For what it's worth, Norwegian courts can probably not extradite a suspected terrorist to USA anymore. This is due to the fact that they can stand a chance of being convicted by rules which are in conflict with basic international principles (...) (23 years ago, 30-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
 
(...) Although our plight is not as bad as elsewhere, I'm certainty not happy with the legislation we are rushing through right now. A few hours is being spent setting aside laws which have worked well for >500 years. By Xmas the UK will have laws (...) (23 years ago, 30-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
 
(...) It should be noted that ->people<- of the United States rejected the current guy residing in the White House. The joke was that as soon as Dubya got power, his first words would be, "Let the executions begin." (...) CNN: America's New (and (...) (23 years ago, 30-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
 
(...) You mean over the past hundred years? It seems to me that today is the natural evolution of a hundred years of incrementally giving up the American way. (...) Yeah. From my informal discussion over the past two months, most people don't really (...) (23 years ago, 30-Nov-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
  Re: The *real* Phantom Menace and the fall of the republic
 
Hi John! First off, let me say - I hear you. I know what you're talking about (*and* Chris is right - you're speaking to the wrong crowd, people on lugnet are generally not crowd-followers(1)). I've seen it happen too as I was watching CNN lately. (...) (23 years ago, 1-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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