 | | Flag Burning —Duane Hess
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| | | Stirring the waters a bit here... I'm not sure what I think of the proposed amendment. I'm all for free speech, but I think that burning the flag is wrong too. Is there middle ground somewhere where I could find some footing? What do you think? (URL) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Carried out in a safe, non polluting manner, on property that is controlled by someone granting permission and using a flag legitimately purchased, burning the flag is protected free speech. It's not a statement *I* would care to make but it's (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Agreed. Moreover, superfluous legislation of this sort serves only to provide members of Congress with public relations fodder, a la "I voted to protect Our Nation's Flag, so-and-so did not--what does that tell you?" I concur with you and (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) "That so-and-so understands the constitution better than you do and therefore would make a better Member of Congress ??? ":-) Ya, that sort of posturing makes me ill. Kind of like the guys who rail against pork but are first at the trough for (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | We must also remember that the PROPER way to dispose of the American flag is to burn it, not throw it away. I think people that burn it in protest are slime (if they think so little of the US and are citizens, LEAVE!), but I think they have the (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Are you saying, in essence (in this thread, and, like all of us, across many other threads), that you want to preserve, for example, your Constitutionally-enumerated right to bear arms, but you want to curtail someone else's (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Stephen Rusnak
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| | | | | | "Dave Schuler" <orrex@excite.com> wrote in message news:GGq2pA.GDv@lugnet.com... (...) American flag is (...) little of (...) to do so. (...) across (...) curtail (...) And <snip> (...) No, Tom states that he thinks does not agree with people who (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Well, mine was a somewhat rhetorical question, though not obviously so. However, he (Tom, I apologize for addressing you in 3rd person this way, but we're working with our interpretations of your post, rather than your input--please feel free (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) It's exactly the same. And there are Americans who feel both of those sentiments. That's one of the things that makes/made us strong. Chris (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) You drumbeater! 8^) Still, can we agree that an apparent tension between believing that someone has a right to do something and also believing that that person should LEAVE to do that something elsewhere? Dave! (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | (...) protected by the first amendment. Such an action demonstrates distress and outrage more concisely and more stridently than can any written manifesto. The right to express one's feelings about the government is a key right of the citizens of (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Duane Hess
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| | | | | | | (...) I do not feel that it is right to burn the flag. It may be more of an emotional attachment to a symbol than anything. Many people have fought and died for the principles that the flag (in it's various designs throughout history) stands for. I (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | | | | (...) Maybe it is just a cultural thing... if I saw a Scot burning a St Andrew's Cross I'd think he was either a bit on the daft side and/or had more money than sense, shrug my shoulders and walk on. Were I a seller of St Andrew's Cross flags I'd be (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) I feel the same way. Although, I think this varies drastically from country-to-country. I was working in Northern Denmark a few years ago, and I was amazed at how many houses had the Danish flag flying (I estimate 10-20%!). If I were to do (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes. We are specifically and knowingly indoctrinating (brainwashing) a sense of nationalism in our children. I find it reprehensible and occasionally write to the ACLU urging them to tackle the problem. I would like the see (at least) the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Duane Hess
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| | | | | | | | (...) I remember saying the pledge of allegiance up until about the fifth grade. After that, I remember only reciting it rarely. It could have been the switch in schools, or a regional thing. I'm not sure. If I am remembering correctly, the ACLU was (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) As I understand it, that is a fairly typical experience. (...) I think that some people want it gone for that reason, but I think that's kind of dumb and petty. The real reason to be done with it is that requiring any kind of pledge of (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Pledge (was Re: Flag Burning) —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) I wouldn't call a religious based argument dumb and petty (even if it is being asked for on nonreligious grounds, i.e. separation of church and state, or "what about the atheists?"), it might get a whole new thread going ;-) Oops, too late. (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Pledge (was Re: Flag Burning) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) kind (...) What I really mean is that I think the God phrase is a relatively trivial point. I was raised as an athiest. I refused to say the pledge as a kid in school because of the God thing. It caused me all kinds of hassle, and I kept a (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Pledge (was Re: Flag Burning) —Stephen Rusnak
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| | | | | | | | "Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message news:GGqFsC.CvJ@lugnet.com... (...) removed from (...) think that's (...) trivial (...) a kid in (...) and I kept (...) get in a (...) superstition. (...) significant (...) the pledge (...) (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Pledge (was Re: Flag Burning) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Call me wacky, but I'm sort of OK with reciting the pledge, once you're old enough to know what you're committing to, and with the proviso that you can leave the godstuff out. I like the US. Even with all the injustice and repression and (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) I don't think things have got quite to the point of needing to burn the flag just yet. I see it as such a disrespectful statement that it's only one small step from armed rebellion. The excesses and oppressions of our government haven't yet (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | And before the zealots start screaming, note that Larry stated libertarianism (SMALL l) is on the rise, not Libertarianism. Big difference, as has been noted before. (...) -- | Tom Stangl, iPlanet Web Server Technical Support | Netscape (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) Whereas it is not my usual style to burn anyone's flag (it's just cheap theatrics) perhaps the best way to voice my opinion on this would be to go out and burn a flag. Okay, I'd probably just burn a copy of the proposed law, but I think it's (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | (...) Tell me more?? I know there are a number of people that like her work but I found it, well, not that accessible and not that engaging. (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Flag Burning —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) I knew I shouldn't have mentioned that. I haven't read any of her other books but I knew she was noted for writing things from "a women's perspective". Which I don't have a problem with - at least normally. The book starts interestingly enough (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —James Brown
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| | | | (...) <snip> (...) Terry Brooks should stop pretending to write good fiction, acknowledge that he writes marginal formula at best, and run with it. I don't mind some of his stuff, I just hate that some people are fooled into thinking it's quality (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | (...) I read all the Darkover books as a kid. My tastes have refined considerably since then and when I tried to read a more recent one as a young adult (19-21 or so) I just couldn't do it. It was disappointing. (...) I think the key here is (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —James Brown
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| | | | | | | (...) I've never actually read much MZB that wasn't a short story, and I've never had strong feelings about her one way or the other. I haven't read any Darkover, because I hate coming into the middle of a story or setting, and I've never had (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) Did you mean "he" my friend, or "he" the author? Either way, you were right, except that this particular friend was a woman. (...) I think I finished the first two books and had to politely excuse myself from the series when Beth tried to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Um, she'd be a mistress. :-) <GD&R> ... actually I understand that Vernor made an honest woman(1) of her for some while but they parted friends. 1 - you know, that phrase just bugs me, it seems wrong somehow. Seems to devalue love for (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) He's surely up there. However his latest wasn't quite as good as I'd hoped (it seemed to end rather implausibly after a setup for apparent invincibility by the villians). Here's hoping we never have an Emergency here. (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | (...) Hmm. I didn't see that. I thought that he did a good job of plausibly giving Pham appropriate advantages in order to allow him to cleverly win. Actually, I think it was his best work yet. Because Star Wars was so much better than what had come (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Right, whereas I thought he just pulled out the ending without giving any hint that it was going to play out that way. I don't want to spoil too much so won't be more specific. (...) I'm of the opposite view, I see _Fire_ as his best by far. (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Stephen Rusnak
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| | | | | | I have to put in my vote for David Weber for Military SF. -- Overkill is the only sure kill. SR "Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GGp2GL.4q8@lugnet.com... (...) hoped (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) It's a rare talent... fortunately. Some authors are born to mediocrity, some acquire it in old age, and some have it thrust upon them (1). Fortunately a few lose it, too. 1 - success sometimes seems to do this... I like Orson Scott Card a LOT (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Book burning (was Re: Flag Burning) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) That's a *fantastic* summation. I read the various Chronicles in my early twenties, but when I tried to reread them a few years later I couldn't do it. One of Donaldson's greatests strengths is an obvious love of the language, coupled with a (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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