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(...) I was going to stay out of this but...(1) While I possibly agree with you Larry, this seems to be one of those times where it's appropriate for the parents to send BOTH kids to their rooms without supper. I still am not convinced it's good to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) I know this wasn't the point, but I have to say that such an action is a really disgusting abuse. The kids should be taught to work out their differences and play nicely. Forcing an abusive authority relationship on them won't do anything (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) From a simply pragmatic standpoint, I never saw the "no supper" punishment as that effective, including those few occasions when I was subject to it. It was too vague a punishment to have any lasting effect, even in terms of negative (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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<snip> Further, it is my opinion that punishing both children whenever it is not easily determinable who is at fault engenders the notion that if you can just muddy the waters as to fault, you can get away with stuff to the extent of your victim (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) I agree 100% Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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(...) Oh. My. Goodness. Say this isn't so, Frank! I'd debate you, but I'm afraid we don't have that much to argue about. :) I had somehow presumed your job would require some sort of higher brain function--but am I taking mental engagement for (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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(...) Programming does require higher brain function, but it tends to be very different from the critical examination used in debate. I haven't ever gone deeply into the types of stimulation I get from each activity that I do, but there are definite (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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(...) True. But are problem-solving and critical analysis that different? The only difference I can see is that the latter is played out against a second thinking human being (which, granted, is significant). Is this why we engage in office (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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Frank and Lindsay write: (...) Higher than what? (...) I've been asking something of RPGers for years: Does what you value about playing RPGs lean more toward the role-playing (i.e. acting) or more toward the problem solving? I've been playing RPGs (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Punishment doesn't teach what the punisher normally expects. It merely teaches the recipient to avoid being caught. It also creates a divide between the authority and the punished, rather than bringing them together team-wise. (...) But I (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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(...) Well, the involvement of another person is certainly an important factor. Like I said, I haven't really dug into what the differences are between the various mental stimulations that I enjoy, but what I do know is that I need something beyond (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nothing personal, but...
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(...) My valuation changes on a session to session basis. I've been playing for almost 25 years (and I'm sure there's one or two people who can best me on the years). The biggest thing that I identify as a preference is not so much style of play, (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Several weeks ago, my step-son was going too close to the road. My wife and I gave him warnings and examples ("that's danger!") as to why he shouldn't get too close. He disobeyed soon after and was caught by me. I gave him another warning and (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Postmodernist "power structure" drum-beating, if you ask me! Your assertion depends on the assumption that people can never grasp a concept of (culture- and society- based) right and wrong but instead must languish in an attitude of "the power (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) I agree with Dave and it's not like you have to smack the child for every transgression. Once you've smacked them for crayoning on the wall when they discover another inappropriate action you can inform them if they do it again, that too will (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) First off, quick comment. Negative reinforcement is the wrong term here - negative reinforcement refers to the removal of a bad effect, in response to a good action. Negative reinforcement receives the *same* effect as positive reinforcement, (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." :-) Bruce (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Ah, well. The point remains the same. Let me amend by statement thus: "It was too vague a punishment to have any lasting effect, even in terms of the removal of an desirable stimulus, to wit, dinner." And, anyway, it wasn't Psych 101--it was (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Surely the term Violence only covers actions that are meant to cause injury, permanent or otherwise. I'd be the last person to assult or injure a child, I just think with the undeveloped mind of a child sometimes a smack is probably the only (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Ignore all the rubbish I wrote above I've now totally changed my mind. Steve (23 years ago, 21-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) It was 101 for me!... Two years ago for me. Which is prolly why I remember better. ;-) -Shiri (23 years ago, 22-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Why is there a limit? What is it? What is it based on? You go on to say some pretty commonly accepted stuff, but I'm not infering what this limit is. (And simply by being popular, doesn't make it right.) (...) It sounds like you think I'm (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) I do agree that as much as possible the "punishment" (consequences) should be related to the "crime". The consequences for mouthing off could result in no TV for the day if the consequence is actually "since you refuse to be civil today, you (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Suddenly Chris makes it personal (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) You're creating a false dichotomy; by forcing Shiri to assert a hard line of distinction--knowing that such a hard line is by its nature impossible--you are attempting to say that no distinction can exist between "too much," "too little," and (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Suddenly Chris makes it personal (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) (And (...) I can see what you're saying, but that wasn't my intent. I would be satisfied to discuss the results of her (or your) attempt to codify (even with the understanding that the edges are hazy) what "too much," "too little," and (...) (23 years ago, 22-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Suddenly Chris makes it personal (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) And in the meantime everyone ELSE has to put up with your child being a brat? You disgust me. You're one of the people that lets their children run rampant over everyone else, letting them "learn", and then "discuss" it with them afterwards. (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Suddenly Chris makes it personal (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) to (...) time. (...) If he had been so severe that I thought the other children needed their rights protected, I would have done so. In the instance that I'm thinking of, that wasn't the case. He wasn't bein egregiously abusive, he just wasn't (...) (23 years ago, 23-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Heehee - for a second there I thought you were saying that just coz *I* was popular doesn't mean I'm right. ROFL! OK, let me give a few examples, since it *is* a grey area, as Dave correctly pointed out (and you seemed to agree). I'm claiming (...) (23 years ago, 25-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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Thanks for the response Shiri, I was begining to worry that my poor behavior had actually run everyone off from the topic. That, I think, would be an embarrassing first. I'll be disagreeing more politely now. :-) (...) In as much as you are (...) (23 years ago, 25-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Child rearing (was: Nothing personal, but...)
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(...) Hehe. Good. I like you better this way! (From your .debate posts I barely recognize the funny guy I met at Brickfest last year! It took me awhile to convince myself I was not mistaken and it was the same person. You're usually so serious (...) (23 years ago, 26-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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