 | | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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"Mark P" <mark@landofbricks.com> wrote in message news:I2vxt7.q1p@lugnet.com... (...) I have a real problem with businesses that like to lay down the law without providing a reasonable explanation as to why. A while back I had an issue with my ISP (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote: (major snip) All of you AFOLs have way too much time on your hands regarding this issue. :-) -jeremy (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX) !
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/
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(...) Yes, his own words: "Dan informed me yesterday that I needed to remove that wording as it's a ToS violation. I responded with a suggestion for a different approach." Later: "...I responded rather tersely, suggesting that the implementation be (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/
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(...) Is there even the slightest shred of evidence for this statement? (...) Are you suggesting that he should pretend contrition even though he did nothing wrong? Chris (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: What's actually the task of the moderators on BrickShelf?
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"Johannes 'Jojo' Koehler" <chutspe@gmx.net> wrote in message news:I2t532.230G@lugnet.com... (...) I think people do things for different reasons, and rather than judge people based on our own worst fears and worries, we should try to find the truth (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops/
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(...) down while (...) BL buyer (...) entirely (...) mistakes (...) to protect (...) his TOS (...) it, it (...) enough (...) No. He showed that he thought he could dictate the ToS. I want to be protected from that sort of mind-set. (...) ebay would (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Larry didn't break any rule spelled out in the TOS. That's the problem. He broke an "unwritten rule" and when he tried to fix the problem, he found that he was still breaking some "unwritten rule". When one enters into such an agreement (like (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I read the TOS again yesterday and didn't see any of this mentioned. Again, I think it's unfortunate that the TOS doesn't spell out what types of additional rules are allowed and what types aren't. (...) I have a feeling that this wouldn't be (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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Hello! (...) I assume people just don't bother with an affair that is nothing to anybody but Admin and Lar. BrickLink is still the best source for LEGO parts. Solidarity with either Admin or Lar doesn't help anybody at all. First of all not my (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Good NPR Interview
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The piece is on 3rd party politics and features guests Michael Badnarik (Libertarian presidential candidate) and Larry Jacobs (Hubert Humphrey Institute of Public Policy) (URL) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I don't understand _your_ point. Is it that people are weak or inconsiderate? Chris (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I shall need time to think about that. ;) scott A (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) This is now not possible, as Bricklink has been changed (URL) to allow buyers to add the remainder to their cart, even if it's not a multiple of the bulk amount. That is I believe what prompted Lar to enter the description that caused this (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Given the vast number of sellers who do just that (especially in terms of S&H/insurance surcharges), without getting into trouble over it, I'm guessing from that that it's okay to say "If you buy X, you must also buy Y", but that it's not okay (...) (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I understand your point, but this in no way would effect my shopping on bricklink (and I suspect MOST others). Jamie (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Personally, I see it as resolved now. Almost all of us can all still buy or sell. Follow the rules. It can be debated all we want, but to me, it is resolved. (and I stress - To Me) Jamie Jamie (20 years ago, 25-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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I believe Larry's actions were entirely appropriate, and those of Dan completely inappropriate and unprofessional. Though I am not a high profile Bricklink customer (I've only spent a few hundred there), I will not shop there unless and until his (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An apology
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(...) We all know it is always difficult to apologise, even a day, a week or a month or more later.. Hats off to you, Don. I hope those you were apologising to see it, and accept it. (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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This whole situation is so unfortunate on so many levels. Dan seems upset that Larry is trying to use Bricklink in a way that he doesn't intend (even though the TOS doesn't seem to address the gray area of stores imposing "terms and conditions" on (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | An apology
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(...) Ah perfect. Everyone seems distracted with BrickLinkGate, so.. I think it's long past time for me to take Larry's advice and "play nice". Yes, I admit it. I behaved like a total jerk when I posted to this thread way back in July (and probably (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Hey, that's true-- but what you're also not counting are the number of posts that are favoring Larry. And that's my point about bad press. There are people out there who (if things like this continue) who will abandon BL. Heck, on the BL (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Now that's just ridiculous. While I would understand your concern if his TOS violation was in regards to non-payment or non-shipping, let's face it, it wasn't. It was about a particular policy which hadn't been clearly enough spelled out until (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Clarification? Fair enough. I'm referring specifically to Item 8 of the TOS, which states outright that he can terminate access at any time without notice. That's the criterion I'm using, and, as it's written, it contractually grants Dan the (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) That sounds a little subjective (...) In what way is he paranoid? (...) Now that sounds like paranoia. (...) Now you sound paranoid. (...) Last month I had what I thought was a serious problem; I could not pay my BL fee due to a PAYPAL (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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Larry, You are painting a very dark picture. Without divulging names, can you give us more details on these "previous incidents in the past"? Scott A (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I would like clarification here. Are you asserting that Dan has applied the ToS consistently and fairly? What evidence of that do you have? I have evidence to the contrary. I acknowledge that he doesn't *have* to be consistent and fair, there (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops-
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(...) Rarely, anymore. Why? Chris (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) But what are you using as the standard of judgment? I can't think of any justification to judge Dan's actions except in terms of consistent application of the TOS. Has he failed in this regard? I don't think so. Do some people find his (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops-
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(...) If you mean I'm not brown-nosing Larry: you are correct! However, read my posts; you'll see that all I'm doing is urging for some realism. I'm not suggesting Larry be banned for life or anything silly like that. Nor am I suggesting that Dan is (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I believe honestly that if Larry saw exactly what played out leading up to his banning happen to you or Richard, he would support reinstating the banned member because of their earnest attempt to act in good faith in the situation (regardless (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | (canceled)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) But the fact the TOS said what it did (summary action) isn't disputed, at least, I don't think. Did Dan have the right to ban Larry? Yes. Was it right for him to ban Larry, given the situation? No. Dan can do whatever the heck he wants with (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Did I say he was? (...) I note you have not disagreed with my point. (...) Interestingly, I stopped posting outside .debate due to the tendency of a certain individual to jump on my posts... Secondly, I very seldom post outside the .debate (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I'm not sure I agree; I wish this whole thing had stayed private. That said, think about this: what do you think Larry would have done if the tables were turned? Scott A (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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Hello! (...) And there is a a large group of BL users who simply don't care for what has happened and continue using BL because it is the best platform for buying and selling LEGO. There are few who know Admin (or even Admin's name ;) ), there may (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) The difference is that Lar accepted the terms of the TOS, and I commend him for stating this explicitly in his recent post. The TOS included the provision for summary action, and BrickLink has taken that action. The revoking of a driver's (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. Scott, you ought to be ashamed. Chris (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) That's your option. However, that's not what Larry was doing. "Think about it." (...) Who are you to say such a thing? Unlike Larry, you contribute virtually nothing to LUGNET and many of us (even people who might agree with you on many (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) What I find really sad in all of this is, though you're toeing a line and being consistent in your arguments, you're *really* using this incident as an opportunity to stick it to Larry. Pathetic, but expected. -Tim (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.market.brickshops, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: suspended Bricklink shops
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(...) I'm not counting, but I'm aware of a lot of posts which say Dan was correct. I'd also suggest that there will be a lot of BL users who are indifferent to the mess Larry has got himself in. A further group is probably unaware (despite Larry’s (...) (20 years ago, 24-Aug-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.market.brickshops, FTX)
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