 | | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) LOL! Well obviously that was a typo. Funny none the less. (...) we (...) Contrary to popular belief, believing in God does not automatically make a person incapable of seeing things from other perspectives. -Mike Petrucelli (22 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Message of Peace
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VICTIMS OF THE FUTURE (Gary Moore/Neil Carter/Ian Paice/Neil Murray) "Searching each day for the answers, watching our hopes disappear. Set on a course for disaster, living our lives in fear. Our leaders leave us in confusion. For them there's only (...) (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) "at least 1" is logically equivalent to "2", in this context anyway. :-) (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) *cough* 2 Christians *cough*... Dave K (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Watch out... Mike has judgement with a capital J! :-) (...) Yes, well said. Glad to see at least one christian gets it. Thank you. (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I am only responding to this one part because after reading Larry's reply it occurred to me that this part is intended as a kind of snare -- frankly, a rather lame one at that. I am tolerant of others' views unconditionally -- that is to say (...) (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Mine is. My respect for your right to swing your fist around stops just short of my nose, as the old saying goes. Put another way, I can tolerate anything except intolerance. ++Lar (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Despite my better Judgement I am going to get sucked into this debate. (If only to prove to Dave! that someone who belives God created the universe is capable of rational thought.) (...) First off John, I want to make it perfectly clear that I (...) (22 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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Many thanks for viewing our work. Always remember and never forget what happened on September 11, 2001! ACPin & Sons (...) (22 years ago, 14-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) What exactly do you mean by that? That all of *yours* are indeed *fact*? The FACT is that the POA stands-- defending it one way or the other is opinion. But I am willing to drop the whole issue until it is decided by the SC. But I know that if (...) (22 years ago, 14-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I don't like to see John stating his own opinions as facts either, esp. when much of what he has to say is contrary to the facts as understood and accepted by the rest of us. The Constitution trumps all other laws. Even the preamble is not (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) To no avail, apparently. Your inability to reason is invulnerable. (...) What do you want to hear, John? That "their Creator" should be stripped frm the Declaration of Independence? Fine, I certainly support that. As Dave K has correctly (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Gee, Dave! we simpletons shur 'preshiate when you smart folk done make it easy-like fer us to understand;-) (...) "Congress shall pass no laws respecting religion or the free exercise thereof;..." What do you mean by "issue any declaration"? (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) I don't accept that as a given. Too often pure socialist countries started off way down the ladder anyway, and are further weighted down by being dictatorships. (...) I think it is easier for socialists to take over capitalist countries with (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) A socialist gov't is more prone to being victimized by a dictatorship or ruling class because a significantly larger percentage of the power in the system rests with the government. In a capitalist system the would-be dictators become CEOs (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) No. A car with a flat is going to eventually crash (not work). Governments with a "flat" would eventually fail. Better to use a clogged fuel injector analogy, where the performance is impaired, but leaving the car still working. (...) The next (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Sorry, in what way is redistribution "fair"? (...) This is the same old argument and the refutation is simple. NOT everyone has to do good or be charitable. Merely enough people to take care of the problem. We have empirical evidence that is (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) And I would tend to concur. I mean, if I'm going to be fed and housed, and really not have to do anything to 'earn' it, why would I work? In the 'perfect' socialism, everybody works and then everything that they made gets gathered up and (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Ok. Now say Sweeden... it's not below the US standards. And it's just as much socialist as it is capitalist. (...) That's absurd. Was there at any point in history a nation which *democratically* chose socialism, and later had a socialist (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) That's not entirely accurate, but even if it was, it's not a good metric. The average standard of living in the US is significantly higher than, say, China. I don't tend to agree with Larry on political ideals, but as a goverment moves closer (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) I'd generally accept that ;-). But in accepting that, I have to accept that, as one gets closer and closer to a pure capitalist system, there are more and more people who are worse off (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Poll tax! (was: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) No, we currently do not. That's the UK I think(1). I was talking about under an idealised constitution if I got to write it. 1 - or at least I recall that there was some talk of introducing same. Note that a "poll tax" was used as a repressive (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Poll tax! (was: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: (snipped) (...) ! You have to pay a tax TO VOTE???!!! :-O Or did I misinterpret? (...) Pedro (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) This I think is the crux so I snipped the rest. If a car has a flat tire, but the driver is driving it down the road because the other three tires are OK, is the car "working"? One could argue that it is. After all, the car is moving in the (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Or suppress it either. Allowing a club to meet isn't support, but preventing one from meeting is suppression. Unless the school has a policy forbidding all clubs from meeting on school grounds it cannot prevent some clubs (which are otherwise (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I don't really have to: it's you that needs to prove that virtually every single country on the planet is a failure. _ :-O (Edvard Munch) - I said that every country practices socialism to some degree or another. You are stating that socialism (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Sorry, if 99 people out of 100 vote that the sun rises in the west, does that mean it does? No. If 99 people out of 100 vote to expropriate the property of all Tshirt manufacturers does that mean it is morally correct to do so? No. If this (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) And I with him. Didn't work then (his shenanigans prolonged a depression that was caused by other politicians meddling) and doesn't work now. Please provide an example of a country that's socialist that works. If you choose a mixed economy be (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A Message of Peace
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WAR PIGS by Black Sabbath Generals gathered in their masses, just like witches at black masses. Evil minds that plot destruction, sorcerers of death's construction. In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning. Death and hatred (...) (22 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) By US standards, I suppose I would be called that. By European standards, I'd probably be considered centrist. But that isn't the topic currently being discussed. (...) Good. (...) Huh? That's a straw man. The issue is religion, not viewpoint. (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Here it is, in terms as simple as I am able to formulate, in the hope that--against all prior evidence--you will be able to formulate a rational conclusion: P1: According to the 1st Amendment, Congress has no right to issue any declaration of (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Since I include any culture, it would seem not to be bigoted, beyond I am bigotted against bigotted people. And since the religious ethno-centricism is usally used to exploit/murder/steal from someone else not so "blessed", "wrong" and (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) America is not most definitly moving willingly to the right--it's being *forced* to the right by the 'chicken littles'--"Oh no! The sky is falling! Remember the good ol' days when kids didn't kill one another in school, when planes weren't (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Sounds pretty bigotted. Why not just say they are wrong or misguided? (...) Disagree. I'll bet you 99 out of 100 people would disagee with you. (...) Christianity has been intimately involved with this nation since its inception. The (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I am merely looking at the actual documents themselves as they would appear to someone who wasn't aware of their author's intentions. Thus, I take "Creator" to be a reference to God, you take it as evolution (how inalienable rights stem from (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) But that's not quite the point, either. If the State has the right to mandate religion (which it does NOT, despite John's wishes to the contrary), then I have no legal recourse if the State throws me in jail for not bowing at the alter of the (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Believing in God, and believing we are a country under God (a theocracy) are two vastly different things. Even if you are accurate in your claim, it would simply indicate that the vast majority of Americans are delusional (50 million Frenchmen (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: <snip> in any case you are ONCE AGAIN missing the point. If the State (...) While I agree with you in your point about keeping religion out of state run affairs... I have the freedom to believe what I (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Ok, lets explore this. You say that people tend to want to not want to help, that they would vote to keep the money for themselves, and that only a government can convince them to help others. Well, what is the government made up of? Last I (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Counterfactual, as I said. (...) I'm sure FDR would have a bone to pick with you if he was alive. (...) I'm ashamed of you, Larry! Libertarians is the answer, of course. They stick to their guns - or dogma, depending on your viewpoint - better (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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