Subject:
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Re: $7000+ PayPal Warning
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.services
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Date:
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Sun, 8 Jun 2003 12:49:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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3649 times
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In lugnet.market.services, Steve Chapple wrote:
> In lugnet.market.services, Dave Schuler wrote:
> > In lugnet.market.services, Steve Chapple wrote:
> > > Am I the only one alarmed by this or that this is new to?
>
> > I think that part of the problem is that we're basically forced to
> > discuss your second-hand report by an anonymous individual...
>
> True enough; While I have no reason to doubt him, I do have only his word.
> To be fair, his Email was, I think, written when the wounds were still fresh
> as it were, and also written just to me, not as a public post. In addition,
> he sells relatively large amounts of gold, and hence would be the perfect
> target for a thief to fraudulently use PayPal on/with.
It's not a matter of whether or not people believe that PayPal took back $7G
from this guy, I certainly believe that it could happen. But the guy is taking
it as a personal attack by PayPal and acting as if they plan to just keep his
money.
Where is the money now? If (as we are left to assume) the buyer used a stolen
credit card number, then the funds will ultimately be returned to the credit
card company from which they were stolen. PayPal has a responsibility to
recover the money and hold it in escrow while an investigation is under way, but
they don't get to keep the money in any outcome.
> What alarms we is the whole reversal of payment issue - all the various
> verifications seem to mean nothing. PayPal is supposed to be Email equivalent
> of cash, but if/when someone snail-mails cash payment to me, it cannot be
> reversed (without my cooperation). Once I've RX'd payment I send the LEGO
> to the buyer, and again - that cannot be reversed without their consent
> and cooperation. A buyer would presumably see all my positive feedbacks,
> and that I'm part of the Guild of Bricksmiths™, and might even Email me
> for further info. to ensure they feel safe to send their payment. There's
> an obligation of trust and responsibility on the seller to provide the
> product (or service) one is selling. The only thing the buyer need do
> is pay for what they want - trust of the buyer and any lack of reputation
> isn't relevant. However, if PayPal can reverse payment(s) in the blink of
> an eye, even when the buyer, his account, his credit card and his receipt
> of the goods are all verified, THAT alarms me!
If the funds used to make the payment were stolen then the whole transaction is
illegal. Technically, the seller is receiving stolen goods in the form of
money, so it doesn't matter whether you can prove that the goods were shipped.
Of course, the seller wouldn't be prosecuted if they were unaware that a stolen
card was used, but they don't get to keep the money either. He can only try to
recover his merchandise.
Any system can be exploited. A recent scam involving overpayments with
counterfeit money orders demonstrated that even money in the bank is not always
a sure thing. PayPal does a few things to "verify" a member, but nothing is
foolproof. If you doubt this, you should really read "Catch Me If You Can" (or
at least rent the movie) which is a true account of just how easy it is to
create a false identity by leveraging different pieces of identification against
one another like a house of cards. Although technology has changed a lot since
then, human nature hasn't.
- Chris.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: $7000+ PayPal Warning
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| (...) True enough; While I have no reason to doubt him, I do have only his word. To be fair, his Email was, I think, written when the wounds were still fresh as it were, and also written just to me, not as a public post. In addition, he sells (...) (21 years ago, 7-Jun-03, to lugnet.market.services)
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