Subject:
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Re: $7000+ PayPal Warning
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.services
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Date:
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Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:26:48 GMT
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Viewed:
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3703 times
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In lugnet.market.services, Dave Schuler wrote:
> In lugnet.market.services, Steve Chapple wrote:
> > Am I the only one alarmed by this or that this is new to?
> I think that part of the problem is that we're basically forced to
> discuss your second-hand report by an anonymous individual...
True enough; While I have no reason to doubt him, I do have only his word.
To be fair, his Email was, I think, written when the wounds were still fresh
as it were, and also written just to me, not as a public post. In addition,
he sells relatively large amounts of gold, and hence would be the perfect
target for a thief to fraudulently use PayPal on/with.
What alarms we is the whole reversal of payment issue - all the various
verifications seem to mean nothing. PayPal is supposed to be Email equivalent
of cash, but if/when someone snail-mails cash payment to me, it cannot be
reversed (without my cooperation). Once I've RX'd payment I send the LEGO
to the buyer, and again - that cannot be reversed without their consent
and cooperation. A buyer would presumably see all my positive feedbacks,
and that I'm part of the Guild of Bricksmiths™, and might even Email me
for further info. to ensure they feel safe to send their payment. There's
an obligation of trust and responsibility on the seller to provide the
product (or service) one is selling. The only thing the buyer need do
is pay for what they want - trust of the buyer and any lack of reputation
isn't relevant. However, if PayPal can reverse payment(s) in the blink of
an eye, even when the buyer, his account, his credit card and his receipt
of the goods are all verified, THAT alarms me!
I'm in discussion of this issue with another eBay gold seller, and he pointed
out to me the eBay discussion forums: Community > Discussion Boards > PayPal
and one recent post in particular. Here's the link and I've quoted it below...
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jsp?forum=97&thread=205678&modifed=20030606205149
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Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely and PayPal Has Been No Exception
By Mike Fleming
What may have sprouted as a tender shoot that was planted to provide online
auctioneers a service that would be convenient and more affordable than making
arrangements directly with credit card companies to accept online credit card
payments, PayPal seems to have grown so fiercely and large that it is now a
large institution with a rough bark of insulation too thick and tough to tackle.
As the days and weeks drag by, the company’s roots dig deeper into the soil of
the forest of fair trade and honest business practices, depriving not only its
competitors but also its customers of all the nutrients in an effort to protect
and strengthen itself.
I am reminded however of the old axiom, 'power corrupts, and absolute power
corrupts, absolutely.' The laws of the land were all enacted for good reason.
Mainly they came about to protect society from itself. It seems that PayPal has
finally reached a climax where they have become so powerful and effective in
their efforts to insulate themselves from the courts that they have arrogantly
embarked on a road that essentially rapes the consumer of the very rights
afforded them under the equal protections of the justice system.
There is a housing development growing in leaps and bounds across the way from
where I sit pounding on my keyboard in my efforts to silently scream to the
masses that something stinks here. I often wonder if I should walk across the
street and make this development the best of the best. Let me start by making
sure that only those who are willing to give up their rights can live in it. I
wonder if that is possible? I never liked the police and after all the stuff I
read in the papers and see on CourtTV it is apparent to me at least that I could
find a number of people to live in the houses only after signing away their
right to have the police come. That’s right. No police will be allowed in my
development because they don’t do a good job and they don’t protect our
interests anyway. I can make them believe that I’m sure. To quell any questions
that might arise over this practice, I will provide them security. My own
security with little uniforms and little cars and little badges that look like
real security and have everything except of course the ability to arrest and
take anyone to jail. I better leave that part out of any agreement though and
hide that fact until I have to face it. I’ll just call them the “Security
Enforcement Detail” and they will have special departments that sound very
impressive like the “Fraud Unit” and the “Burglary Unit” and of course… the
“Investigations Division.” The homeowners will love it and they will feel
protected in the land I create for them. The homeowners must first report a
crime to me and my Security Enforcement Detail, if they make a peep to anyone
else before they do this…. Out they go!!! It’ll be in the agreement. We will
have our own courts because the existing civil courts will not hold MY best
interests in mind, they may side with the homeowners and we can not have that.
We must make absolutely sure this does not happen and that people will not be
able to report us to the police or other regulators. We don’t want the building
inspectors coming, it will cost us. We don’t want the Fire Marshall to be able
to visit, it will cost us. These regulators only care about the homeowners-- I
can’t have that in my new land.
What else must I do to make my development the best of the best? How can I keep
the police out and outside influence and law from corrupting our safe little
environment. We should probably make it a country of it’s own. Of course, we’ll
have to pay taxes so we can not very well go that far. And most importantly we
can not disassociate ourselves from this great United States and deprive
ourselves from living off the fat of the land and reaping in our lavish
lifestyle off of the backs of the American home buyers. We can use the laws of
the United States to protect ourselves and not the homeowners. That‘s it - work
for me! Now that’s a novel idea. Let’s just call it, Private Property and
everyone who lives here will have to own it jointly (actually, it will be in my
name, but they can think what they want, I‘ll make sure its in the agreement);
that’s a way around the laws that will ensure the police will not have any
authority. I will own it, and I’ll let them live in it… but they can believe
they own their own house, I will tell them no different. They can assume they
have insurance and protections, how stupid they are, they deserve it if they are
wronged for not reading my agreement.
We’ll build lots of parks and waterslides and play music like at Great America
to draw new homeowners in. We’ll park our ‘Security Enforcement Detail’ cars on
all the corners and paint them up to look like real police cars with real
authority and the home buyers will come in droves because they will feel
protected. We’ll show them a beautiful home and have them sign ‘the agreement’
very quickly as not to give them time to read it. If they complain about
something, first we will take the keys to their house from them and walk them to
the gate and lock them out until they come back and beg and plead with our
Security Enforcement Detail for their belongings. When the police come we will
show them our private property signs and tell them they are not allowed to
enter. They will go away, eventually, they will stop coming altogether.
I am in charge now!!! I rule this land and if you have problems you come see me.
No police, no courts, no lawyers…. You come see me and I’ll decide what’s best
for you and where your kids go to school and what happens to the person that
burns your house down. I will have absolute power and I promise you above all
promises that I am different than everyone in history who became corrupt from
that power. I’ll put it in the agreement. If you don’t agree and think I am even
getting a tinge of corruption, I will have my Security Enforcement Detail
investigate and tell you the results of that investigation. But remember this,
if you go to the police or complain to someone outside your going to have to go
to my court first to get your house back. I have it on my private property… and
those keys in your hand… they are no good anymore because I have changed the
locks on your house while you were at work. What? Your going to go away and tell
the police anyway? Go ahead, I don’t care, this is private property, they will
tell you that!!!
I will name this neighborhood, PayPal Land.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SRC
LUGNet#765
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=SRC
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: $7000+ PayPal Warning
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| (...) It's not a matter of whether or not people believe that PayPal took back $7G from this guy, I certainly believe that it could happen. But the guy is taking it as a personal attack by PayPal and acting as if they plan to just keep his money. (...) (21 years ago, 8-Jun-03, to lugnet.market.services)
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