 | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Willy Tschager
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| | | (...) part-time, student, non-career, professional, careerist ,steering committee, fellow member, active member ... there is a german saying: den wald vor lauter bäumen nicht sehen (not spotting the forest because of too many trees ;-) I remember (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jan-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | (...) That (both the itlug and Dan's solutions) is definitely a nice and easy solution. The problem here is that Tim would like to keep his job at LEGO and have a go at being on the LDraw.org steering committee. Since I don't know what Tim's (...) (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | (...) I'm a sales associate at a Brand Retail store, part-time. (...) I don't see a conflict with my current job description. Like Larry, I say let it be a campaign issue. That seems to me the simplest solution. -Tim (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | | | (...) I wouldn't expect that to conflict with any responsibilities you might get on the LDraw.org board. (...) Agreed. But it seemed - from Willy's message - like we might run into trouble with the views of a majority of the European LEGO fans using (...) (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Willy Tschager
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| | | | (...) it’s not the point if Tim has/has not a conflict of interest or is/is not eligible to be a Steering Committee Officer. I posted the comment just to show that the membership of LEGO employees in fan clubs is an issue and it has to be solved (...) (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | (...) [...] (...) Fair enough. (...) My position is this - there are certian levels of employment in an organization that don't allow influence over company policy, and those levels of employees should not be excluded from eligibility to be elected (...) (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Dan Boger
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| | | | | | (...) I object, for the record. I think the point isn't if someone can influence TLC policy, but if they can influence LDraw's policy. In my optinion, if you get a paycheck from LEGO, you might have a conflict of interest. (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Jennifer L. Boger
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| | | | | | | Quoting Dan Boger <dan@peeron.com>: (...) I agree. (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | | (...) Ok, but at what point does a conflict of interect exist? Do we really need to exclude every worker simply because membership from a small subset poses a conflict of interest? -Orion (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | (...) I strongly object to a blanket exclusion. I do not believe every position would pose a conflict of interest. Here is a thought: What about instead of having an exclusionary clause, require that if someone is employed by TLC, there be (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | | | (...) This is the best I can come up with: Any person who works in a retail outlet (including kiosks, mall stores, and theme park centers) from the store manager position down or any worker in manufacturing, shipping, or goundskeeping/housekeeping (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) While I agree that someone in that situation might have such a conflict of interest, then again,they might not. It's pretty far fetched to see how someone in Tim's position could possibly have any conflict of interest (except in a good way for (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Dan Boger
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| | | | | | | | (...) ... (...) So let's separate the issues. I think we all agree that a LEGO employee should not be in the SC (if only for the appearance of impropriety). If you want to make a special case for Tim, or make a more generic way of allowing (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I agree there _might_ be a conflict. I don't believe it would be true in every case. I have suggestions for generic ways of allowing exceptions [1] and will consolidate them and post them later today. -Tim [1] IMO the exception process should (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Apologies for not making the timeframe - they're *just* about ready and they should be ready to go tomorrow. -Tim (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) No, I do not think we all agree that. (...) Yes, someone does so disagree. In fact I'd go farther, I think most of us do disagree, at least for the case of people that have little or no practical influence within LEGO (people who work in (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | | | | (...) I think the views are so different that it is unlikely that we can reach a consensus. There may be a majority for either of the two opinions, but I doubt it will be possible general agreement about what is the right solution. (...) Uhm. Right. (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | (...) Why not turn the clause 180 degrees? If you get your paycheck from Lego, you can only be eligible after community discussion/approval? I suppose being payed by MegaBloks, or any other clone maker would need the same treatment. -- Anders (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | (...) I agree with this. It's a tough issue, but people working for Lego (in any capacity) will tend do things, say things, or NOT say things to keep that paycheck coming. If more bad decisions like the color change force Lego into bankrupcy, or (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) He's high enough up (and his job description is focused in such a critical direction) that I think almost everyone would agree that there was a conflict of interest in his case. LEGO is his career now, after all. (...) The problem with special (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Jake McKee
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| | | | | | (...) All, I hope you don't mind if I chime in on the discussion. I just caught up on the thread, and there are a lot of very good things being tossed around. Personally, I tend to like the idea of Larry's to exclude any mention of LEGO employee (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw) !
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Mike Thorn
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| | | | | | (...) I concur. :) I haven't been following this thread at all up until now, but Jake's post caught my eye. And I agree with what he said - only I want to go a little further. Couldn't anybody that even has association with TLC possibly have a (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | (...) My second reply to this post - this time I'm addressing the issue from a personal perspective, rather than the less partial process-oriented viewpoint in my previous post. I am concerned that a blanket provision to ban TLC employees will (...) (21 years ago, 2-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Allister McLaren
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| | | | (...) I for one certainly don't doubt your devotion to the hobby, nor do I doubt that you will do anything but behave with the utmost integrity as a member of the committee. However, despite this it does concern me that there is nonetheless a (...) (21 years ago, 3-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | (...) I don't see this discussion as about Tim at all, except as a test case. As I've said before, he's a handy metric. Any rule that excludes him (based on his current employment situation) is wrong, and worse, it is in my view bad for the (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Allister McLaren
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| | | | (...) I agree. (...) I suggested nothing. I was merely asking a question. Can you just answer it without reading motives into it that don't exist? Is it really necessary to be a member of the steering committee in order for suggestions on the (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | (...) Hi Allister - Thanks for that clarification. Actually, I was at a momentary loss for how to approach the answer, but now after thinking it through I have something to say. I would hope that whoever is elected to the Steering Committee would (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Allister McLaren
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| | | | | | (...) Perfectly. Thanks. As I said originally, I don't doubt your integrity or devotion to ldraw.org, TLC employee or not. I was just hypothesising to myself about what a conflict of interest might entail and thinking, perhaps unreasonably, that (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | (...) Thanks for your confidence. Based on my experience in the company so far, working relationships I have with Community Development people, and experience in the hobby in general, I do not believe the pressure you hypothesize about is likely to (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | (...) I do apologise if I misinterpreted your words, but I would suggest that my interpretation is an extremely reasonable one given the word choices you used. (...) I would think not, but I look to the steering committee to do a lot more than make (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: LDraw.org Bylaws Drafts: Call for Public Discussion and Consensus —Allister McLaren
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| | | | (...) I see. I wasn't clear on what role the LSC has. I've gone back over the posts dealing with that subject and understand it better now. Nevertheless, I still think it was a valid question. (...) Not really. It's less to do with the way I worded (...) (21 years ago, 4-Feb-04, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, FTX)
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