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Hi,
Yes, of course I know _what_ an AFOL is.
But: Who created this term? When? And where?
The r.t.l. FAQ does not mention the term (and I never read it "back
then", IIRC), so it could be newer. Other FAQs only give "AFOL=Adult Fan
Of LEGO".
Any ideas?
Yours, Christian Treczoks
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In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> But: Who created this term? When? And where?
IIRC: Todd, Here, a long time ago. YMMV.
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In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
>
> > But: Who created this term? When? And where?
>
> IIRC: Todd, Here, a long time ago. YMMV.
Heh, not according to Todd :)
http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=2940
Adrian got it right-- Jeff Thompson appears to be the first one who used the
term "Adult Fan Of Lego" on RTL (June 13, 1995), and Matthew Verdier first
brought light to the acronym in reference to Jeff's post (June 14, 1995), which
quickly caught on.
DaveE
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> >
> > > But: Who created this term? When? And where?
> >
> > IIRC: Todd, Here, a long time ago. YMMV.
>
> Heh, not according to Todd :)
>
> http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=2940
>
> Adrian got it right-- Jeff Thompson appears to be the first one who used the
> term "Adult Fan Of Lego" on RTL (June 13, 1995), and Matthew Verdier first
> brought light to the acronym in reference to Jeff's post (June 14, 1995), which
> quickly caught on.
Was Jeff "Nephilim?" There were giants in the earth in those days.
Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
Dave!
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
> Was Jeff "Nephilim?" There were giants in the earth in those days.
The emails matched up, so I would assume that was him.
> Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of
> 1998.
Hey, I'm even newer! I started reading sporatically in early '99, and started
posting in... The summer of '99 sometime. I believe someone was just talking
about how there was actually a community when they switched to 9V trains, which
was 1991. But it seems the oldest post that Google has is in alt.toys.lego is
from Feb 1993, though.
DaveE
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
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Wow. June 1995. I’m a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of
1998.
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A “vet” compared to me, Dave! It appears my earliest post to RTL was October 3,
1998 (Yes, it was regarding LEGO trains:-) I discovered LUGNET in Jan ‘99....
JOHN
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> >
> > > But: Who created this term? When? And where?
> >
> > IIRC: Todd, Here, a long time ago. YMMV.
>
> Heh, not according to Todd :)
mmmKay, whatever... I DID say ****IF**** I remember correctly.
Oh well.
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
> > Was Jeff "Nephilim?" There were giants in the earth in those days.
>
> The emails matched up, so I would assume that was him.
>
> > Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of
> > 1998.
>
> Hey, I'm even newer! I started reading sporatically in early '99, and started
> posting in... The summer of '99 sometime. I believe someone was just talking
> about how there was actually a community when they switched to 9V trains, which
> was 1991. But it seems the oldest post that Google has is in alt.toys.lego is
> from Feb 1993, though.
>
> DaveE
My earliest post was 29 Nov 1995 - good grief!
.s
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This is a good question -- as a relative newbie to the community, I've often
regretted that this is the standard acronym.
It's pronunciation is unclear; I've heard old AFOLs say anything from "A.F.O.L."
(i.e. just spelling it) to "A-full" (long "a"), but other reasonable
pronunciations would be "afull" (short "a") or even "awful", which is how
non-AFOLs I've shown it too usually say it. Certainly not a very complementary
acronym if you see it that way. And even with the long "A", it's vaguely
reminiscent of slang word that starts with "A" and ends with "hole" (especially
if you pronounce the "FOL" part as "fole").
Much better would be Adult Lego Enthusiast (ALE), which not only makes a nice
clear acronym, but also is a better description -- we're not just fans of the
LEGO company, we're enthusiasts of the LEGO hobby. Someone who's into trains
isn't a train fan, they're a train enthusiast (or hobbyist).
But I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance of the term ALE catching on now,
is there? Or some other more carefully-considered acronym?
Best,
- Joe
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Wow, I looked up my posts, and the earliest they had was May 11, 1998. Though that
was a post from Larry about my liking the jeep in 6405, so I know I must have posted
earlier than that.
Not too much earlier, though, as it was Brian Kendig that turned me to online Lego
resources in 96 or 97.
So I guess I'm still a newbie ;-)
Dave Schuler wrote:
> Was Jeff "Nephilim?" There were giants in the earth in those days.
>
> Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
>
> Dave!
--
Tom Stangl
*http://www.vfaq.com/
*DSM Visual FAQ home
*http://www.vfaq.net/
*Prius Visual FAQ Home
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
> Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
My first post to r.t.l. was August 9, 1995. Good grief.
Russell
BayLUG/BayLTC
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In lugnet.general, Russell Clark wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
> > Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
>
> My first post to r.t.l. was August 9, 1995. Good grief.
Wow, missed beating out Nephilim by THAT much.
let's trim lugnet.faq off the FUT, ok?
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
>
> Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
>
> Dave!
I did some looking and found June 1997 was mine but I -know- I was browsing
before then, like early 1996.
Adr.
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I guess that makes me old : (
Google shows a post from Sept '93 as my oldest...
David Eaton wrote:
> Hey, I'm even newer! I started reading sporatically in early '99, and started
> posting in... The summer of '99 sometime. I believe someone was just talking
> about how there was actually a community when they switched to 9V trains, which
> was 1991. But it seems the oldest post that Google has is in alt.toys.lego is
> from Feb 1993, though.
>
> DaveE
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In lugnet.general, Jason S. Mantor wrote:
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I guess that makes me old : (
Google shows a post from Sept ‘93 as my oldest...
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Old??? You’re a living fossil! :-)
JOHN
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In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > > In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> > >
> > > > But: Who created this term? When? And where?
> > >
> > > IIRC: Todd, Here, a long time ago. YMMV.
> >
> > Heh, not according to Todd :)
> >
> > http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=2940
> >
> > Adrian got it right-- Jeff Thompson appears to be the first one who used the
> > term "Adult Fan Of Lego" on RTL (June 13, 1995), and Matthew Verdier first
> > brought light to the acronym in reference to Jeff's post (June 14, 1995), which
> > quickly caught on.
>
> Was Jeff "Nephilim?" There were giants in the earth in those days.
>
>
> Wow. June 1995. I'm a newbie--I only started posting to RTL in January of 1998.
Looks like my first post was in Sep 15 1996, cool.
jt
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In lugnet.general, Joe Strout wrote:
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Much better would be Adult Lego Enthusiast (ALE), which not only makes a nice
clear acronym, but also is a better description -- we’re not just fans of the
LEGO company, we’re enthusiasts of the LEGO hobby. Someone who’s into trains
isn’t a train fan, they’re a train enthusiast (or hobbyist).
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I’m in agreement with you on this, I’m not so much a fan, as an enthusiast. And
I describe myself to others as such.
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But I don’t suppose there’s a snowball’s chance of the term ALE catching
on now, is there? Or some other more carefully-considered acronym?
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Sure, if enough of the community recognized that one particular acronym was
better. Shifting gears isn’t easy but can be done. I say BrickLink without even
thinking now, but at first, I’d say BrickBay and then have to correct myself.
Jason Spears | BrickShelf Gallery | MichLUG | CLB
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"Jason Spears" <spielboyAT@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:IH3xAr.st8@lugnet.com...
[ ... snipped ... ]
>
> I'm in agreement with you on this, I'm not so much a fan, as an • enthusiast. And
> I describe myself to others as such.
[ ... snipped ... ]
I posted a few weeks ago regarding my feelings of the term "AFOL":
http://news.lugnet.com/legoland/california/?n=761
Re-reading my post, I don't think I worded it as strongly as I should have.
I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
Mike
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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In lugnet.general, Mike Walsh wrote:
> I posted a few weeks ago regarding my feelings of the term "AFOL":
>
> http://news.lugnet.com/legoland/california/?n=761
>
> Re-reading my post, I don't think I worded it as strongly as I should have.
> I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
> one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
> conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
What aspect of the term do you feel is inaccurate? From your post, it would seem
that you object to the word "fan", because it implies a stronger dedication than
the word "hobbyist"? Of course, the resulting acronym with "Hobbyist" is ..
uh... a touch more vulger :) Would "enthusiast" work?
I know other people have objected to the word "Lego" since they don't feel that
they're fans of the *company* per se, but feel more like fans of the bricks
themselves-- in some cases even being fans of *other* brands in addition to
Lego. Perhaps "ABBE" (Adult Building Brick Enthusiast)?
Personally, I've always been happy calling myself an AFOL, but I'd probably be
happy to call myself any of the acronyms that have been tossed around (though I
personally would want to include the "Lego", since I'm partly dedicated to the
brand thanks to nostalgia in a way that I'll never be attached to other brands).
DaveE
(FUT .general to strip out .faq)
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Mike Walsh wrote:
> > I posted a few weeks ago regarding my feelings of the term "AFOL":
> >
> > http://news.lugnet.com/legoland/california/?n=761
> >
> > Re-reading my post, I don't think I worded it as strongly as I should have.
> > I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
> > one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
> > conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
>
> What aspect of the term do you feel is inaccurate? From your post, it would seem
> that you object to the word "fan", because it implies a stronger dedication than
> the word "hobbyist"? Of course, the resulting acronym with "Hobbyist" is ..
> uh... a touch more vulger :) Would "enthusiast" work?
>
> I know other people have objected to the word "Lego" since they don't feel that
> they're fans of the *company* per se, but feel more like fans of the bricks
> themselves-- in some cases even being fans of *other* brands in addition to
> Lego. Perhaps "ABBE" (Adult Building Brick Enthusiast)?
>
> Personally, I've always been happy calling myself an AFOL, but I'd probably be
> happy to call myself any of the acronyms that have been tossed around (though I
> personally would want to include the "Lego", since I'm partly dedicated to the
> brand thanks to nostalgia in a way that I'll never be attached to other brands).
I personally dislike refering to myself in accronym form. Accronyms are pretty
much an indicator of complete geekishness, which, when cruising the beach for
babes, I try to avoid. I usually say "LEGO Fan" and "LEGO Fan Community", and
then hope that my obvious sense of fashion will clue in my listener than I am an
adult. Sometimes people mistake the facial hair, the height of 6 foot, and my
manly voice to be genetic anomalies rather than an indication of adultness.
If forced to use an accronym, I'd use PoLAWEBwLBBa/oBoOB (Persons of Legal Age
Who Enjoy Building with LEGO Building Blocks and/or Blocks of Other Brands).
-Lenny
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Mike Walsh wrote:
> >
> > Re-reading my post, I don't think I worded it as strongly as I should have.
> > I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
> > one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
> > conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
It's not just you, Mike -- I feel much the same way.
(David replied)
> ...
> I know other people have objected to the word "Lego" since they don't feel that
> they're fans of the *company* per se, but feel more like fans of the bricks
> themselves-- in some cases even being fans of *other* brands in addition to
> Lego. Perhaps "ABBE" (Adult Building Brick Enthusiast)?
I'm sure there are such cases, but from what I've seen, the majority of people
in this community really are much more enthusiastic about LEGO bricks than clone
bricks.
> Personally, I've always been happy calling myself an AFOL, but I'd probably be
> happy to call myself any of the acronyms that have been tossed around (though I
> personally would want to include the "Lego", since I'm partly dedicated to the
> brand thanks to nostalgia in a way that I'll never be attached to other brands).
All right then. I hereby propose that we, as a community, try to start using
the term "Adult LEGO Enthusiast" (ALE if you want an acrynom) in place of AFOL.
It's more accurate, sounds less stilted when you say the whole thing, and is
more clearly pronouncable in acronym form. From my own experience, it will make
a better impression on people who aren't LEGO enthusiasts when we try to explain
about our hobby.
While it does still exclude kids, I think that's necessary for the term to be
useful, as people *expect* kids to be into things like LEGO. What's distinctive
about us, from the non-ALE's point of view, is that we're into LEGO *and* we're
adults. We need a term that recognizes that, and makes it clear that this is a
large and active adult hobby. Otherwise, if I just tell a non-ALE that I'm a
serious LEGO builder, they will simply assume that all the other serious LEGO
builders are kids and I have some maturity issues to work through. (This is
unlike model trains, which have become accepted as an adult hobby in common
culture -- LEGO is not to that point yet, though it is making progress.)
It will take a while for such a change to spread, but if even a few of us make
an effort to use the term whenever the opportunity rises, then it will have a
fair chance. So please tell all the ALEs you know!
Best,
- Joe
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In lugnet.general, Leonard Hoffman wrote:
> I personally dislike refering to myself in accronym form.
I used to like it until someone pronounced my initials (DPE) as "Dippy".
Actually (man, this is going off-topic FAST), when I was a wee one of about 7
years old or so, my name betrayed me. My mom was "Moo-Moo". You'd be "Loo-Loo
Hoo-Hoo". Jake Mckee would be "Joo-Joo Moo-Moo". Don't ask why. I was some sort
of demented kid.
The system worked great until I applied it to MY name. "Doo-Doo Poo-Poo Eoo-Eoo"
(pronounced "Ew! Ew!"). Oh yeah. That worked out well.
> If forced to use an accronym, I'd use PoLAWEBwLBBa/oBoOB (Persons of Legal
> Age Who Enjoy Building with LEGO Building Blocks and/or Blocks of Other
> Brands).
Ha! I'm gonna have to try that from now on. I can *almost* pronounce it.
"PO-la-web-wull-BAY-oh-boob". Very classy.
DaveE
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"David Eaton" <deaton@intdata.com> wrote in message
news:IH42Lw.1wsw@lugnet.com...
[ ... snipped ... ]
>
> What aspect of the term do you feel is inaccurate? From your post, it • would seem
> that you object to the word "fan", because it implies a stronger • dedication than
> the word "hobbyist"? Of course, the resulting acronym with "Hobbyist" is • ..
> uh... a touch more vulger :) Would "enthusiast" work?
[... snipped ... ]
Yes, I believe you are correct, it is the term "fan" I have an issue with.
When I hear to see the term AFOL, I think "Adult Fan of the LEGO Company".
While there are a lot of things I like and respect about LEGO the Company,
there are a number of things I don't care for either. So I wouldn't call
myself a "Fan" of LEGO the company any more than I would call myself AFOAB
(Adult Fan of Anheuser-Busch). While I purchase and enjoy their products, I
don't consider myself a "Fan" of either company per se, certainly not enough
to label myself.
As I mentioned in my other post, I consider myself a LEGO Hobbyist.
Mike
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
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In lugnet.general, Mike Walsh wrote:
> [...]
> I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
> one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
> conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
Suz's drive-by butt-in..
I don't use AFOL in ref to myself because I don't like it either. Not that it's
-horrible-, but I don't feel as though it covers me. "Fan" implies "fanatic",
which I'm not. (Though I certainly was ten years ago..)
Plus it's difficult to speak. :-) I say, "an A-F-O-L". ...heh, it's like some
of the old Usenet terms that were never really meant to be used offline.
When talking to strangers, I describe people of the greater community as "adult
LEGO users" or simply "LEGO enthusiasts". And I describe myself as: "a
blahbidy-blah using LEGO as a medium." Blah being based on my audience.
"curriculum developer", "educational toy designer", "modeler", "student",
"ed-tech researcher", or whatever.
that's my two cents of data! :-p :-) hee-hee.
btw, I'd never look down on anyone for using the term. or for considering
themself accurately depicted by it.
-Suz
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In lugnet.general, Suzanne Rich Green wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Mike Walsh wrote:
> > [...]
> > I really dislike the term "AFOL" and find it mildly offensive to be called
> > one. I would never refer to myself as an AFOL and I don't use the word in
> > conversation. Could be just me, but I don't care for the term.
> I don't use AFOL in ref to myself because I don't like it either. Not that it's
> -horrible-, but I don't feel as though it covers me. "Fan" implies "fanatic",
> which I'm not.
This is probably my biggest issue with it as well. When I hear the word 'fan' I
have a hard time disassociating it from 'fanatic'.
Also, I work in an environment where I'm besieged with acronyms daily...
sometimes two or three per sentence. I try to live my home life as acronym free
as possible. :)
So when asked, I simply tell people I'm a "LEGO builder". It's short and sweet
and seems to get the message across with little explanation required. If I'm
speaking about people here on LUGNET or people who post to Brickshelf I might
refer to them as other "adult LEGO builders" (1) without ever trying to turn it
into an acronym.
Just my two cents.
Allan
(1) Though I realize the sometimes inaccuracy of the first word in that phrase.
My apologies to younger builders... no disrespect intended.
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Nice. I'm going to adopt this one myself : )
Allan Bedford wrote:
> So when asked, I simply tell people I'm a "LEGO builder". It's short and sweet
> and seems to get the message across with little explanation required. If I'm
> speaking about people here on LUGNET or people who post to Brickshelf I might
> refer to them as other "adult LEGO builders" (1) without ever trying to turn it
> into an acronym.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Allan
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In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> Adrian got it right-- Jeff Thompson appears to be the first one who used the
> term "Adult Fan Of Lego" on RTL (June 13, 1995), and Matthew Verdier first
> brought light to the acronym in reference to Jeff's post (June 14, 1995), which
> quickly caught on.
May I blatantly copy your words to create a Wikipedia article for the term
"AFOL"?
Yours, thankfully, Christian
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In lugnet.general, Joe Strout wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
>
> All right then. I hereby propose that we, as a community, try to start using
> the term "Adult LEGO Enthusiast" (ALE if you want an acrynom) in place of AFOL.
> It's more accurate, sounds less stilted when you say the whole thing, and is
> more clearly pronouncable in acronym form. From my own experience, it will make
> a better impression on people who aren't LEGO enthusiasts when we try to explain
> about our hobby.
I dislike the term "AFOL" and would gladly support a shift to use "ALE" or
another non-acronym based phrase.
--
Thomas Main
thomasmain@myrealbox.com
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In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> In lugnet.general, David Eaton wrote:
> > Adrian got it right-- Jeff Thompson appears to be the first one who used the
> > term "Adult Fan Of Lego" on RTL (June 13, 1995), and Matthew Verdier first
> > brought light to the acronym in reference to Jeff's post (June 14, 1995),
> > which quickly caught on.
>
> May I blatantly copy your words to create a Wikipedia article for the term
> "AFOL"?
Go right ahead!
I tried checking briefly to see instances of how often 'AFOL' was used to mean
'Adult Friend Of Lego' (because I've seen it said that it can mean either),
however I could only find about 5 occurances of it being used that way on RTL or
Lugnet. Looks like the misconception of it meaning "Friend" probably comes from
the now-less-often-used "LF" or "NLF" ("Lego Friend" or "Non-Lego Friend").
DaveE
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David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> > May I blatantly copy your words to create a Wikipedia article for the term
> > "AFOL"?
> Go right ahead!
OK, I went. And this is the result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFOL
As with any Wikipedia article, everyone is free to correct or improve
the entry.
Yours, Christan Trezoks
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In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> David Eaton wrote:
> > In lugnet.general, Christian Treczoks wrote:
> > > May I blatantly copy your words to create a Wikipedia article for the term
> > > "AFOL"?
> > Go right ahead!
>
> OK, I went. And this is the result: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFOL
>
> As with any Wikipedia article, everyone is free to correct or improve
> the entry.
Updated a bit, under the 'community' bit, since RTL was really the second online
community, being preceeded by ATL. There was mention recently about the Lego
community in 1991 (in reference to the switch to 9V tracks), but I don't know if
that means ATL was around pre-1993, or whether there was some other venue where
Lego enthusiasts had discussion. Or if people were just mis-remembering. Anyone?
Hmm... Wonder if the wikipedia has entries for RTL/ATL...
DaveE
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David Eaton wrote:
> Updated a bit, under the 'community' bit, since RTL was really the second online
> community, being preceeded by ATL. There was mention recently about the Lego
> community in 1991 (in reference to the switch to 9V tracks), but I don't know if
> that means ATL was around pre-1993, or whether there was some other venue where
> Lego enthusiasts had discussion. Or if people were just mis-remembering. Anyone?
Thank you for the correction. I joined the community back in about 1994
on RTL, and now that you mention it, I remember to have heard of an
alt.toys.lego, although not more than hearsay.
> Hmm... Wonder if the wikipedia has entries for RTL/ATL...
Well, just do it. Wikipedia is a new encyclopedia every day ;-)
BTW, if you would create an account there, you're no longer a simple IP
address in the articles history ;-)
Yours, Christian Treczoks
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