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Hello!
For you October 31st is "Halloween".
For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
(chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
moral courage.
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
Wassssup
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
> doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
> Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
>
> Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> moral courage.
>
> Bye
> Jojo
Great MOC! Looks cool. Didn't completely follow the thing
about Dr Martin Luther, probably my fault though.
Anyways, good job!
Hasta La Vista, Sean
P.S HLDI-wait, better not ask that : )
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Buenos tardes!
> Great MOC! Looks cool.
Thanks!
> Didn't completely follow the thing
> about Dr Martin Luther, probably my fault though.
Well, maybe I tend to lecture sometimes...
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
>
> > Didn't completely follow the thing
> > about Dr Martin Luther, probably my fault though.
Just read this thread again. Not trying to nit-pick, but I think you may be
mixing up your historical figures. The Martin Luther you rendered in Lego
was (I believe) just Martin Luther, not a Doctor. The "Dr." probably seems
to precede that name in your mind because your are thinking of Dr. Martin
Luther King Jr., the civil rights leader during the 1960s who shared a
couple names with the Church reformer of centuries earlier...
Cheers,
-Hendo
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In lugnet.castle, John P. Henderson writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> >
> > > Didn't completely follow the thing
> > > about Dr Martin Luther, probably my fault though.
>
> Just read this thread again. Not trying to nit-pick, but I think you may be
> mixing up your historical figures. The Martin Luther you rendered in Lego
> was (I believe) just Martin Luther, not a Doctor. The "Dr." probably seems
> to precede that name in your mind because your are thinking of Dr. Martin
> Luther King Jr., the civil rights leader during the 1960s who shared a
> couple names with the Church reformer of centuries earlier...
It is possible that the Doctor title comes from the theology degree Martin
Luther had, as a monk. He was a scholar, if I am not mistaken? And back
then, all Church scholars were referred to as "Doctors of the Church".
BTW, MLK was a doctor of law, medicine, or other? Just curious,
Pedro
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In lugnet.castle, Pedro Silva writes:
> It is possible that the Doctor title comes from the theology degree Martin
> Luther had, as a monk. He was a scholar, if I am not mistaken? And back
> then, all Church scholars were referred to as "Doctors of the Church".
According to Jojo (see previous postings in this thread), you are correct.
> BTW, MLK was a doctor of law, medicine, or other? Just curious,
A quick search online reveals that MLK received a doctorate in systematic
theology in 1955 from Boston University.
-H.
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Hello!
> Just read this thread again. Not trying to nit-pick, but I think you may be
> mixing up your historical figures. The Martin Luther you rendered in Lego
> was (I believe) just Martin Luther, not a Doctor.
Nope. :-)
The reformer Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk and also a Doctor of
Theology at the University of Wittenberg. This is why he nailed his 95
theses on the church's door there because this door was used as a bill-board
for the University and he wanted his theses to be publicly disputed. (Well,
as I said before, probably this symbolic act of nailing the theses on the
door never took place, but Luther wrote his theses for the purpose of
scholarly argument.)
> The "Dr." probably seems
> to precede that name in your mind because your are thinking of Dr. Martin
> Luther King Jr., the civil rights leader during the 1960s who shared a
> couple names with the Church reformer of centuries earlier...
Indeed, the two have a couple of things in common. Martin Luther King's
parents must have anticipated their son's subsequent life when they named him.
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Nope. :-)
> The reformer Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk and also a Doctor of
> Theology at the University of Wittenberg. This is why he nailed his 95
> theses on the church's door there because this door was used as a bill-board
> for the University and he wanted his theses to be publicly disputed. (Well,
> as I said before, probably this symbolic act of nailing the theses on the
> door never took place, but Luther wrote his theses for the purpose of
> scholarly argument.)
Ah. That I did not know. Thank you for correcting my oversight! :)
I do find it interesting that the story of him nailing things to the door
might be a myth or exaggeration. I have often wondered how someone in his
day and age could have succeeded in such a thing with some inquisition
threatening his life. ...Although your explaination that the church door
may have been a regular bulletin board would give the story more
credibility. That was something I had previously been unaware of.
...To bring this back to .castle, I wonder what the Reformation did to
church architecture. It seems that most Lego castle churches I have seen
reflect a Gothic or Pre-Gothic style. Was this style used by all
denominations? Or just Roman Catholic? Did some post-Reformation
denominations use a different architecture style in their churches?
Just thinking,
-Hendo
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Hello!
> Ah. That I did not know. Thank you for correcting my oversight! :)
You are welcome :-)
> I have often wondered how someone in his
> day and age could have succeeded in such a thing with some inquisition
> threatening his life.
Well, he had guardians in influential positions who supported his ideas and
protected him from the Inquisition. Luther was "kidnapped" and brought to
the Wartburg Castle (Robert Carney has built it recentley. Unfortunatelly
his web site seems to be offline once more.) to save his life. He was
officially banned and could have been killed by anyone without threat of
punishment.
> ...To bring this back to .castle
Hey! I mentioned Wartburg _CASTLE_ above! :-)
> I wonder what the Reformation did to
> church architecture.
Well... During the following centuries after the Reformation began there
were more churches burned down than built up, I guess...
The next big style epochs were the Renaissance and the Baroque. I think
these styles were used by every denomination.
> It seems that most Lego castle churches I have seen
> reflect a Gothic or Pre-Gothic style. Was this style used by all
> denominations? Or just Roman Catholic? Did some post-Reformation
> denominations use a different architecture style in their churches?
LEGO buildings might depend on the available brick molds. LEGO arches are
round, i.e. Romanesque. Gothic buildings are very very high and have pointed
arches. That's very difficult to build (and expensive. I know of what I speak).
Castle churches are mainly pre-Gothic for they were build in the early
Middle Ages when castles were built, too. Gothic churches are mainly
cathedrals in towns, built when the age of the castles was fading. ("Castle"
here means "fortress", not "chateau".)
Post-Reformation denominations often used and still use formerly catholic
churches. In the town where I live there are four medieval churches, and
three of them are protestant now with still the old catholic names.
BTW. Medieval churches often show a mix of several styles due to the long
time the edification took. Whilst they worked on the nave in Romanbesque
style the common style changed and they built the choir in Gothic style and
so on.
So just few cathedrals are strictly Gothic or Romanesque. Some churches were
never completed and some very late. The Cathedral of Collogne was finished
not before 1880(!). But they used medieval blueprint so it is relativelly
pure Gothic.
...
I'm speaking too much.
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
>
> I'm speaking too much.
Not at all. This is the sort of educational discussion I love here in
.castle! There are some subjects I have studied and retained well, but your
explanation of church history and architecture covers relatively new topics
for me. Quite fascinating!
Also, I think your discussion on how churches were built over time and thus
had influence from different styles and periods is all very reflective of
how some Lego models turn out. When you build a large Lego model, you may
be influecned by different styles. And as you build you may discover your
piece supply dictates an occasional change in design. In some ways,
building a large Lego church could reflect building a real one. ...Cool!
-Hendo
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In lugnet.castle, John P. Henderson writes:
> I have often wondered how someone in his
> day and age could have succeeded in such a thing with some inquisition
> threatening his life.
For a real cloak-and-dagger story, go back 2-3 centuries to Siger of Brabant
and William of Ockham:
Siger successfully defied the eccesiastical authorities in Paris for years
until he was finally silenced in 1277. He got the dagger from his own
secretary about 1281. Siger was a radical in the development of logic and
science.
William Ockham, called "the First Protestant", was summoned by the Pope (the
one at Avignon) in 1329 and accused of heresy after four years of waiting.
Ockham fled the Pope's henchmen by night and reached safety in Bavaria.
(Think of this as the cloak part of this story.)
Ockham's chief trouble had to do with suggesting the Universe was older than
God, but he is remembered today for trying to pare down silly arguments.
-Erik
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In lugnet.castle, Erik Olson writes:
> For a real cloak-and-dagger story, go back 2-3 centuries to Siger of Brabant
> and William of Ockham:
>
> Siger successfully defied the eccesiastical authorities in Paris for years
> until he was finally silenced in 1277. He got the dagger from his own
> secretary about 1281. Siger was a radical in the development of logic and
> science.
>
> William Ockham, called "the First Protestant", was summoned by the Pope (the
> one at Avignon) in 1329 and accused of heresy after four years of waiting.
> Ockham fled the Pope's henchmen by night and reached safety in Bavaria.
> (Think of this as the cloak part of this story.)
>
> Ockham's chief trouble had to do with suggesting the Universe was older than
> God, but he is remembered today for trying to pare down silly arguments.
Wasn't William of Ockham mentioned in Umberto Eco's novel "The name of the
Rose"? The secondary action is around a theological debate about heretic
beliefs (*), and I suppose he's one of debators.
(In any case, that is one fine book for understanding some of the medieval
Church history/philosophy)
Countless other victims of the Inquisition were condemned for attempting
some sort of Reform...
However, not all of them were on the same side of the spectre (yes, the
Church did condemn people for fanaticism as well!). Geronimo Savonarola ran
Florence as a teocracy for a while, but became too annoying for the
hierarchy and went to the stake...
Funny how few people know that there were also attempts to reform the Church
*the other way* :-)
Pedro
(*) - among such beliefs is the Franciscan statement that Christ did not own
anything... again, Church income is the focus of doctrinal contestation
(like Luther and the Indulgences).
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In lugnet.castle, Pedro Silva writes:
> Countless other victims of the Inquisition were condemned for attempting
> some sort of Reform...
> However, not all of them were on the same side of the spectre (yes, the
> Church did condemn people for fanaticism as well!). Geronimo Savonarola ran
> Florence as a teocracy for a while, but became too annoying for the
> hierarchy and went to the stake...
>
> Funny how few people know that there were also attempts to reform the Church
> *the other way* :-)
I don't think we're talking about the same issue, so, I challenge you to
explain yourself in Lego (:
I will also build something...
JoJo started this.. yeah!
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In lugnet.castle, Erik Olson writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Pedro Silva writes:
>
> > Countless other victims of the Inquisition were condemned for attempting
> > some sort of Reform...
> > However, not all of them were on the same side of the spectre (yes, the
> > Church did condemn people for fanaticism as well!). Geronimo Savonarola ran
> > Florence as a teocracy for a while, but became too annoying for the
> > hierarchy and went to the stake...
> >
> > Funny how few people know that there were also attempts to reform the Church
> > *the other way* :-)
>
> I don't think we're talking about the same issue, so, I challenge you to
> explain yourself in Lego (:
:-S
We are talkin about attempts to reform the Church, right?
Luther started "the" Reform, which was good. Ockham had attempted "a" reform
(no capital R), and failed. Savonarola attempted "a" reform, but this one
was meant towards a more strict reading of the Scriptures (although at first
he only wanted to get Florence rid of moral corruption, pretty soon he began
preaching against everyone alive).
I'm afraid I can be of little help in building anything for this subject out
of LEGO (not enough castle parts, sorry). But I can give an idea... a stake
with an "all black" creepy lookin' monk burning in it, surrounded by
florentine buildings of the Renaissance. That oughta give some work to
build! :-)
> I will also build something...
>
> JoJo started this.. yeah!
:-)
And a good idea it is, to have historical events like this depicted in LEGO!
Have fun building,
Pedro
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In lugnet.castle, Pedro Silva writes:
> I'm afraid I can be of little help in building anything for this subject out
> of LEGO (not enough castle parts, sorry). But I can give an idea... a stake
> with an "all black" creepy lookin' monk burning in it, surrounded by
> florentine buildings of the Renaissance. That oughta give some work to
> build! :-)
Although I sent already a week ago, well not a black monk on the stake but
rather Joan D'Arc
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=27872
>
> > I will also build something...
> >
> > JoJo started this.. yeah!
>
> :-)
> And a good idea it is, to have historical events like this depicted in LEGO!
agree
>
> Have fun building,
>
>
> Pedro
P.S. Why you still havn't entered you're name on our 'Loyal to .castle?' list
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
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In lugnet.castle, John P. Henderson writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
<snip snip>
> ...To bring this back to .castle, I wonder what the Reformation did to
> church architecture. It seems that most Lego castle churches I have seen
> reflect a Gothic or Pre-Gothic style. Was this style used by all
> denominations? Or just Roman Catholic? Did some post-Reformation
> denominations use a different architecture style in their churches?
>
> Just thinking,
> -Hendo
hi
some things i'd like to add. (also to the parallel post)
most founders of protestant churches lived around 1500 (i don't mean
founders of buildings). the romanesque era ended in most places befor at the
very very most 1300. so all church buildings in western europe befor the
reformation were roman catholic and so are all romanesque and earlier
buildings. if you state the great shisma of 1054 (i think) as the official
beginning of a western/catholic and eastern/orthodox church, buildings befor
that would simply belong to the christian church.
this gets more complicated if you look east and south though. greek/orthodox
churches started in byzantinian style and very gradually changed to their
form of romanesque. and the later orthodox styles always kept a somewhat
more romanesque touch than their western counterparts.
looking further east you have armenian and georgian (on the black sea)
churches wich seem to start in a romanesque style of their own earlier and
stick to it a lot longer than buildings in the west.
go south and you'll find abbessinian churches that if anything at all
resemble the romanesque style the most.
but back to europe.
all or nearlly all churches in northern europe were converted to protestant
churches after the reformation. so for example by say 1535 all churches in
hamburg and luebeck, also the romanesque ones from 1170 or earlier, were
considered as protestant. there was a difference in services though.
in catholic churches there normally was a need for a path for impressive
processions to the altar. preaching was in latin so most couldn't understand
it and this was not (at least by the architects) considered as important as
the rest of the service. most probably thought singing was more vital. also
in larger churches there side altars for saints.
in protestant churches preaching became very important, as the bible could
be now explained in a language the people understood. the chancel became
more prominent in the building and in some churches was raised above the
altar. the old chancels commonly were to one side so the view to the altar
wasn't blocked. since the renaissance this lead to the building of churches
that were often wider than long with everybody facing the chancel on one of
the long sides. also with palladios research on classical antic design
becoming public some churches were build looking more like modern theatres.
so although you can make a good guess of a church in eastern style being
orthodox, telling a protestant church from a catholic one is a lot more
difficult and with reusused buildings often impossable from the outside.
although catholic churches tend to be more decorated on the inside and you
have side altars for saints, some protestant churches keep the old
decoration because of its historic importance and value as art.
castles of the robin hood and ivanhoe style were not build after the
reformation as cannons enforced a different style of fortification. so
gothic (not in the rivival sense) was the last style new castle churches
were build in (in western europe) and most palace churches started in the
following renaissance or barock eras.
can you tell the religion of a church from the outside in america or australia?
bye/tschuess
thomas
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Hallo Thomas!
> some things i'd like to add. [...]
That's a very interesting article that you wrote there. Thanks!
Tschuess
Jojo
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Hello!
> P.S HLDI-wait, better not ask that : )
It took me a while to get the clue what "HLDITY" means :-)
Well, two hours twice. First I built it wrong, than I built it right.
Bye
Jojo
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Hi Jojo,
Really nice MOC! I wonder if you are the first to make Martin Luther in
Lego. I like the peaked arch over the door, very original. And I too would
rather remember Martin Luther on Oct 31 than Halloween.
Good job!
Josh
In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
>
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
> doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
> Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
>
> Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> moral courage.
>
> Bye
> Jojo
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Hello!
> Really nice MOC!
Thanks!
> I wonder if you are the first to make Martin Luther in
> Lego.
Hehe, maybe... There's not much that once could build concerning to Luther.
Except the Wartburg Castle, of course...
> I like the peaked arch over the door, very original.
Thanks. I've to confess I was surprised myself when I got this idea. And I
like the look, too. :-)
Bye
Jojo
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Beautiful image, Jojo. I love the detail in the archways. Is what we see
there just a small part of a larger model? ...Oh, and the historical notes
in your post are quite nice too! :)
-Hendo
In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
>
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
> doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
> Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
>
> Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> moral courage.
>
> Bye
> Jojo
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Hello!
> Beautiful image, Jojo. I love the detail in the archways.
Thanks!
> Is what we see
> there just a small part of a larger model?
Unfortunatelly not. I've only built this portal just for this one picture.
This door would fit into my cathedral though. If only I had bricks and space
enough to build the cathedral...
> ...Oh, and the historical notes
> in your post are quite nice too! :)
I'm pleased to hear that :-)
Bye
Jojo
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Hey Jojo,
WOW! what a wonderful and unique MOC
is it the outside of the Gothic stuff you sent earlier?
Yaron "Webrain" Dori
In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
>
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
> doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
> Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
>
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
>
> Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> moral courage.
>
> Bye
> Jojo
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Hello!
> WOW! what a wonderful and unique MOC
Thanks!
> is it the outside of the Gothic stuff you sent earlier?
It was not intended to be the door of my gothic cathedral(fragment).
However, it would well fit into it.
Bye
Jojo
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In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> Hello!
>
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg.
Some of us remember this over halloween, which after all is just a
corruption of hallow eve the eve of all saints day...
> http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Jojo/Eigenbauten/church/000martinluther.jpg
Beautiful.
> Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> moral courage.
I know many people/books that still consider this very real, after all
the door was a message board of sorts. And the place to put anything of
debate...
Anyway it is the thought that counts...
Thanks for sharing this and God Bless,
Nathan
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In lugnet.castle, Nathan Todd writes:
> In lugnet.castle, Johannes Koehler writes:
> > Well, historical research nowadays questions this formal act of nailing the
> > theses on the door. However, it has become sort of a legend and a symbol of
> > moral courage.
>
> I know many people/books that still consider this very real, after all
> the door was a message board of sorts. And the place to put anything of
> debate...
> Anyway it is the thought that counts...
BTW, I've seen the door.* I didn't reallize that there was debate as I
understood that it was common practice to tack things to the door.
*Kind of a funny story. A few years ago I traveled through Europe with a
college friend. By accident, my friend and I took a train from Berlin to
the town of Wittenberge, which is different from Wittenberg. We didn't
reallize our mistake until the train had pulled out of the station, and the
next train wasn't for several hours. So we ended up spending our afternoon
in this little town which was pleasant enough, but didn't have any real draw
for tourists. A week later we were able to get to Wittenberg which has a
small Martin Luther museum and the door itself. I found some pictures here:
http://www.galenfrysinger.com/wittenberg.htm
Bruce
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<>Snip<>
> For you October 31st is "Halloween".
> For me it is the day (485 years ago) when Dr Martin Luther nailed 95 theses
> against the practice of indulgence on the portal of the Schlosskirche
> (chateau church) in Wittenberg. This was a revolt against the Church's
> doctrine and let set in the age of the Reformation. So the schism of the
> Churches began (which was in fact not intended by Luther).
<>Snip<>
Actually, the schism in the Churches began many, many years earlier when the
Patriarch of Rome (the Pope) and his western Catholic Church broke away from
the rest of the Patriarchs of Europe, Northern Africa, and the Middle East.
Which are known today as the Antiochian, Russian, Coptic, and Greek (among
others) Orthodox Churches.
Just taking everyone back a few more years.... :)
<>Nate<>
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