Subject:
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Re: The Guardian unworthy of toilet paper?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:06:05 GMT
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Viewed:
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1160 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Avery Christy wrote:
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Am I correct in seeing another fallacy here, not necessarily one on
Bennett’s behalf, but more of one in general?
That being that it is instead economics that drives or motivates crime, not
race as Freakonomics seems to put forth
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Freakonomics puts forth the idea that most crime is caused by the
poverty-stricken segment of society (excluding massive corporate fraud, which
is pervasive and carried out by the wealthiest segment) and further
postulates that most of the abortions that have occurred since Roe v. Wade
have prevented additional births within that poverty-stricken segment. The
argument, then, is that the decreased crime rate correlates with the
increased rate of abortion among the poverty-stricken, which is to say that
additional (ie., non-aborted) births may have fomented the crime rate among
the poverty-stricken.
Freakonomics makes no claim, as far as I’m aware, regarding the race of those
in poverty. That addendum is entirely Bennett’s.
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The whole “race issue” is a throwaway. I think what statistic Bennnett is
picking up on is that the crime rate is disproportionately greater among black
people (which is fact). So if you hypothetically aborted all black babies, then
yeah, crime would go down. But so what? It is an absurd proposition. He is
saying that arguing against abortion from an economics angle is absurd.
The caller was saying that, “Hey, if there hadn’t been so many abortions, we’d
have more taxpayers paying into the system and the deficit wouldn’t be as bad”.
Bennett, although against abortion, argues against this idea. He is only
interested in arguing against abortion on moral grounds.
So just as an utilitarian idea of reducing crime by aborting black babies is
wrong, the utilitarian argument against abortion based on having more taxpayers
is wrong. In any case, he is certainly not advocating in any way, shape, or
form what the headline read. You must acknowledge that.
And the smear works like a charm. For instead of debating the sleezeball
journalism practiced by the Guardian (which was the topic of my post), we are
talking about Bennett, and whether he’s a racist, and when was the last time he
beat his wife.
Brilliant.
JOHN
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: The Guardian unworthy of toilet paper?
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| (...) While I agree in principle with what you are saying I don't actually see you debating the 'smear' in the article at all. You have repeatedly stated that it is a smear and you have provided a transcript and you have (debatebly incorrectly) (...) (19 years ago, 4-Oct-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: The Guardian unworthy of toilet paper?
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| (...) The headline doesn't suggest one way or the other that Bennett is advocating anything. It is reporting what he said, then goes on to chronicle the incident itself and the reaction to it. Giving abbreviated but accurate headlines is what the (...) (19 years ago, 4-Oct-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Re: The Guardian unworthy of toilet paper?
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| (...) Bennett should have said "the crime rate would go down if you aborted all babies." The absurdity would have been more succinctly demonstrated, and he would have avoided any perception of racism. The fact that he explicitly singled out an (...) (19 years ago, 4-Oct-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: The Guardian unworthy of toilet paper?
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| (...) Freakonomics puts forth the idea that most crime is caused by the poverty-stricken segment of society (excluding massive corporate fraud, which is pervasive and carried out by the wealthiest segment) and further postulates that most of the (...) (19 years ago, 4-Oct-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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