 | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | (...) With a completely new design, or with a modified version of this one? At the very least he'd need to add manouvering thrusters to make reentry possible. (...) Ten years to achieve what, exactly? Low orbit? High orbit? Moon-landings? Privately (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | (...) I'm reading between the lines, but I think only a little: new design, high orbit Yes, but let's imagine that Rutan can do it for $60M. What did NASA spend? (Of course, they were pioneering the technology!) (...) What if it's double those times (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | (...) Is that for development or launch? (...) NASA is also a governmental agency, and therefore bound by red tape. In other words, they have to spend money to spend money. The government has been cited as spending $300 on a hammer, but the hammer (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) That's absolute nonsense. I could say more on this topic at this time but I'm not sure it's a good use of my time. (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) From page 112 of (URL) The Libertarian Playbook:> "Though technically not a valid rhetorical device, argument by assertion is commonly employed when attempting to dismiss an argument by fiat." (...) Also (URL) from page 112:> "One may attempt (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Personally, I like the spurious fake-quotation that raises (shouldn't that be "lowers"?) sophistry to a new level. ;-) -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I pride myself on my sophistrication. Dave! FUT ot.fun, because I'm having such a swell time! (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | (...) So due to your lack of inclination to post a proper rebuttal, we're suppose to take the 'absolute nonsense' as the end of the arguement? "Hey Joe--you're an idiot!" "Wha--? Why???" "I don't have time nor the inclination to tell you, you're an (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | | (...) If this is such a monumental waste of your time, perhaps you'd prefer to get back to our discussion of whether or not tritium can be harnessed as an economic power source? I seem to remember a similar response when I pointed out that we'd need (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) The exact term you used, I think, wasn't it? (...) I don't recall ever making any such claim, I think you have me confused with someone else. However, if you can provide a cite where I said it, I'll gladly retract any statement I may have made (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | | (...) Indeed it was, but you wholy missed the point in your zealous rush to criticize me yet again. I wasn't objecting to your use of my own words, but to your callous treatment of my statements by way of making a big public show of ignoring them. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | (...) Sorry, I can't help notice, Dave, that you left off the end of Larry's message talking about baiting. Also, I'm not sure that anyone else cares who is right, you or him, other than the two of you. I've watched the two of you get into it on (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Tim, many thanks for your constructive input. ;) Dave, just how intelligent do you "claim" to be? ;) Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Top 0.5%, based on SAT scores. (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Wow. I can see why Tim feels intimidated by you! ;) Scott A (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) ROFL! -Tim (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I don't accept SAT as a valid indicator of intelligence even though there is a statistically powerful correlation for native English speakers. But I might just be missing part of an earlier conversation... Chris (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Out of curiosity, what are those? Pedro (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Hello, Pedro- (URL) Scholastic Aptitude Test> It is the standard test used by colleges for potential admissions. JOHN (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) During the first research methodology course in grad school, we were given data on the just-graduated University of Missouri students for an exercise in statistics. I found that SAT was the best predictor of college academic success for the (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —David Laswell
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| | | | | | | | (...) Considering his history of bullying behavior towards me, here, on the MichLUG list, and especially by private e-mail (where his often inflammatory, usually hypocritical, and always condescending "suggestions" got to be of such a blatantly (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) This sounds familiar. Scott A (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) This sounds familiar. JOHN (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) I heard a statistic indicating that the amount of energy needed to go into low orbit is about 70X the energy needed for this touching-the-face-of-God launch, so there are many difficulties to overcome, perhaps more daunting than the obstacles (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Richard Parsons
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| | | | | (...) An interesting idea - a distinction that had never really occurred to me before. To me the government is just an expression Australian-ness, not at all unlike an Australian company is another expression, as are our (non-governmental) sporting (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | (...) My sewerage system is completely privately owned and works just fine. Chris (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Disagree, see below. (...) I'd agree with that. Properly construed, government is a tool to protect rights. Improperly constructed, government is a master that takes them away. (...) Two points. 1, Perhaps there's a bit of cause and effect (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Sewerage systems tend to be monopolies. The only way to ensure treatment and conveyance standards are met is to regulate performance... the "market" is poor at protecting our environment. (...) You are cherry picking. I'm sure IBM and BATF (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Richard Parsons
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) As per my reply to Chris I wasn't actually saying that governments should run sewerage, only that government is critically important, like sewerage is critically important. (...) I think we've got a large area of agreement on this, looking at (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Serendipity & IBM —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Put your flag away. By chance, I read (URL) this> is my newspaper yesterday about IBM: Gypsies win right to sue IBM over role in Holocaust - In 1936 IBM set up its European "headquarters" in Geneva. The appeals court ruling said: "It does not (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) OK, thanks for clearing that up. I do hope you can see why we all misinterpreted your original wording though. (...) Neither. I think a government is *capable* of acting in ways that would make me feel patriotic, and in fact the US government (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) It is a minor point, but I thought he was succinct: "Don't get me wrong, government is critically important (like say, a decent sewerage system), but its highest achievement is to be just a tool." It was CW's response which shaped things. If (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Who makes sure of that; you or the government? Who tests WWTW discharges; you or the government? I assume your local sewerage operator runs a monopoly? Scott A (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) The type of sewerage handling systems that I may install are defined by building code. So I guess, the government. Discharge testing at the site (I'm running with septic) is done prior to accepting the design as legal. I'm actually not sure (...) (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Have a look at (URL). (...) Very worthy. (...) I'm not surprised. I expect you select a contractor based on a mixture of price, connivance & personal recommendation. Everything else is based on trust. In the same way, most people just flush (...) (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Cool! There's a lot of this kind of research and development coming out of Denmark. At least, much of the stuff I've previously found points back that way. Chris (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Richard Parsons
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| | | | | | | | (...) That's wonderful. The point (in case I was not abundantly clear) is not that governments should run sewerage systems, but that governments are important, like sewerage systems are important. Richard Still baldly going... (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | (...) Oops. My bad. I guess I didn't read what was written...and now it's spawned off a stray conversation. Oh well. Now I wonder if I should go back and disagree with your actually point. :-) Chris (20 years ago, 24-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Only nations can generate patriotic pride (Re: Some good news for a change, maybe?) —David Laswell
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| | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) I've been busy building for the last couple weeks, but I've finally got a chance to come back and read through this mess again. Much as others missed the intent of your sewer comment, I think you missed the intent of my patriotism (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Some good news for a change, maybe? —Scott Arthur
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| | | | (...) Manoeuvring thrusters are the least of his worries; he shall need a 6-7 fold increases in velocity... and then he'll have to think about re-entry. Scott A (20 years ago, 23-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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