Subject:
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Re: Lego seems to be copying Mega Blocks
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 24 May 2004 13:22:33 GMT
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Viewed:
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1618 times
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that German battleships and battlecruisers in WWI (and in
WWII--Scharnhorst and Gneisenau in particular) mounted weapons of 11”
bore or even smaller.
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Very true. But, even the Germans considered the Gneisenau and Scharnhorst
something called ‘Pocket Battleships.’ This was a peculiar way to present a
ship that was greatly outclassed by BBs and BCs. The Germans could thus claim
Naval equality simply by classing their ships as battleships. However, the two
pocket BBs, as you stated had limited guns and even lacked the high speed of
contemporary Fast Battleships. Due to their limits, the pocket Battleships were
used in cruiser squadrons as commerce raiders, which was more in line with the
WWI role of a battlecruiser.
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It had more to do with role than with the specific qualities
possessed, and those that persisted after WWII were still coined
“battleships” only because they started life that way (not that there was a
role for them anyways
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Well not exactly, the role of the battleship remained of supreme importance.
While the aircraft carrier had become the center of the Task Force concept
implemented in the last half of WWII, the Battlship still retained a very
central role to that organizational unit. For example, carrier operations were
very limited by weather and did not have the ability to operate at night.
Therefore, the offensive capabilities of the Task Force fell to the more
dependible battleship during these times. Also, a carriers battle performance
was in direct proportion to the strength of its airwing, which was remarkably
easier to attrite than the warfighting abilities of the battleship. There are
many in the Navy today that still consider there to be a role for the
Battleship. During the Reagan Era, with the push for a 600 ship Navy, there was
an organizational unit that operated independently from the Carrier Battle
Group. The Surface Action Group was centered around the reactivated Iowas and
operated inedepent of airsupport.
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But if you look at the various proposals for completion of the
Iowa-class BB Kentucky, some of which if memory serves did
eliminate the HG altogether, they still refer to it as “BB”
(though with suffixes at times). It wasn’t until the mid-1960s
that the guided missile was really placed in that other category.
The same (again, if memory serves) held true for various completion
scenarios for Hawaii, the third of the Alaskas. Weren’t
the Alaskas reclassed as “large cruisers” at some point in their
careers anyways?
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The Alaskas were queer birds indeed. The Navy actually resisted their
construction, given the previous poor performance of the Battlecruiser type
vessel at the Battle of Jutland. However, these ships were pushed by FDR, as he
sort of had a hankering for a new battlecruiser class. I don’t seem to recall
that they were ever reclassed however. Both the Alaska and the Guam served
through the Korean War, but never truly saw much action, except in shore
bombardment and anti-aircraft roles. The latter actually became the most
prominent. Given the severe lack of armor on the Alaskas, no commanding
officer would have risked her in fleet action, thus her big guns (12in IIRC)
would have been useless. However, her 11 dual 5in anti-aircraft guns were
heavily used. I do seem to remember reading something in General Board of the
Navy hearings about the Hawaii being reclassed a Guided Missile Anti Air Ship,
or something and there was also plans drawn up to modernize the existing
Alaskas as guided missile large cruisers.
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I was simply pointing out that what you define as a “battleship”
depends on who’s doing the defining and when
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And right you are. I conceed that ship classification is a very relative thing,
especially since the 1980s when the US Navy reclassed a majority of its warships
(not something I’m thrilled about). I just jump at the chance to talk about
this sort of thing.
Steve
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Lego seems to be copying Mega Blocks
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| (...) The "pocket battleships" (literally Panzerschiffen, or armor-clads) you're thinking of were Deutschland (later Lützow), Admiral Graf Spee (of the River Plate, and which a private company is talking about raising and restoring (!!!!)), and (...) (20 years ago, 24-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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