 | | Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) Israel is the regional superpower which is backed by the only superpower left. As such, Israel can defend just about any border it wishes. Israel has expansionist tendencies. It is building homes on land which does not belong to it for (...) (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) Is this a reference to the Australian eBay auction offering a "Monkey Knife Fight"? At last, a sporting event I'd pay to see! [For the humor impaired: this is a joke!] -- Hop-Frog (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) This guy is in *serious* denial. His thinking is more dangerous to Israel than Hamas itself. -John (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) In what way John? Personally, I think what he is trying to do is laudable: (URL) is peace so dangerous in your view? Scott A (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) Because the Palestinians are not one-minded. Hamas, for instance, has publically declared their desire to not end their fight until Israel is no longer. Peace is dangerous when one side's idea of it is the elimination of the other side. When I (...) (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) I am not understanding your comments here, John. Here is a guy who despite what must be tremendous personal loss and grief is STILL seeking peace. Rather than look for fault on the other side, he is introspecting and finding flaws with the (...) (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) What's so hard to understand? The guy is not grasping reality: "The Palestinians cannot drive us away - they have long acknowledged our existence. This is simply not true, as I cited. They have been ready to make peace with us; it is we who (...) (22 years ago, 8-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) There are those in Israel who want to do the same to the Palestinians. You are using the views of extremists to condemn a whole nation. In the post you responded to I cited two articles. You chose to criticise the one backing dialogue and (...) (22 years ago, 9-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: Is the Palestinian Cause Dead? The Latest Terror Attacks]
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(...) John, "They" would say that their attacks are in response to Israeli oppression and murder. Indeed, there is little doubt that the current Intifada started with Sharon’s deliberately provocative trip to Haram al-Sharif. Further, there is (...) (22 years ago, 9-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) Wanting and doing are two very different things. Besides, I have tried to make distinctions between Palestinian extremists and the GP all the time. It is my criticism of them that *they* aren't making that distinction more. (...) Those views (...) (22 years ago, 9-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) Are you saying Israeli extremists do not murder Palestinians out of pure hate? Are you saying Israeli extremists did not wreck Oslo and Oslo II? (...) I agree they are oppressed. I agree murdering civilians is wrong. I reject the notion that (...) (22 years ago, 13-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) I was making a distinction of intent. The IDF does not *target* the civilian population as Hamas does. Yes, innocents are killed, but not intentionally. I find the distinction crucial. But if you want to make comparisons, answer this: why do (...) (22 years ago, 16-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) What do you mean? Isn't that the goal? The only goal? Isn't saving lives the whole reason for concern? I hope it's not just about retribution for you. (...) This can only be said if you extend the timeframe infinitely. It's like saying there (...) (22 years ago, 16-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) My point is that *any* amount of terrorism is unacceptable. So the fact that the number of homicide bombers reduces from say 10 a month to 2 a month is irrelevant-- *any* amount is too many. (...) What I am trying to point out is that as long (...) (22 years ago, 16-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) But you're also saying, in essence, that two is just as bad as ten. And that's simply not so. Two is a big improvement over ten. And it's reasonable to think that maybe whatever tactics can move the number from ten to two might also move it (...) (22 years ago, 16-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) In the past it has deliberately targeted non-combatants. Now it acts with (at least) complete disregard for civilian losses. (...) I'm sure some Israelis are happy - don't doubt that. I'm sure not all Palestinians celebrate – don’t deny that. (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) Or should you, for instance, carry a burden of guild because your great-great-great-gr...eat-great- great-great-great-gr...eat-great- great-great-great-gr...eat-great- great-great-great-gr...eat-great- great-great-great-gr...eat-great- (...) (22 years ago, 19-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) One man's terrorist is an other man's partisan. Marek Edelman was one of the leaders of the Warsaw ghetto uprising of the Jews against the Nazis in 1943. Is he a terrorist or a freedom fighter? Should his living relatives be punished for his (...) (22 years ago, 22-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) Irrelevant. I reject your comparison of Nazi Germany's occupation and Israel's, and am rather offended by it. -John (22 years ago, 24-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "Peace" can be dangerous (was: Re: Peruvian Indians [Re: ..)
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(...) lol. I thought you'd say that. I think it is relevant. (...) I thought you'd say that too. But the truth is Mr Edelman probably knows more ablout the subject than either you or I. This is what I read about him a few days ago in the Guardian: (...) (22 years ago, 2-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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