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(...) General Winter, the finest leader of the Russian Army! Well, him and that Zhukov chap. ;) (...) If Hitler's generals had run the war, Hitler couldn't have been Hitler. What happened was as much doctrine as it was individuals--it's like any (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nah, that's about the figure accepted for war-related mass democide. Stalin's tally is *on top of that*. (...) Now, this is interesting. What's the political deal you heard? I know that the Germans were evacuating soldiers and civilians en (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) exhaustive. (...) many (...) Yeah, it's quite shocking. (...) Yeah, the Russians don't give up very easily. Thank God (and I'm not religious ;-D) they didn't, things could have went differently... (...) Hehe... yeah. ;-) (...) Two million (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thereabouts. The true tally can never be known, at least not in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources (probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely. The reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million. In (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) many (...) No comment, I really can't pick a side. He probably was a killer, but he sure did a lot for his country... Much like Hitler... Ooo... That doesn't sound good. ;-) Honestly, I'd love to find a leader who doesn't do horrible things (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The only question is how many of these 25 million did Stalin off himself (there should be a smiley here, but it is kind of hard to use one when talking about this kinda of mega-death). (...) That was a political deal. (...) The Soviets had (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) True but the U.S. could have but IKE agreeded to let the U.S.S.R take Berlin(IKE knew it would have cost alot of lives to take so it was no problem for him if the russians WANTED to take it.IE "glory") (...) Hee True! (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Keep this in mind....if Hitler had let his generals run the war they would have won it.They did not want to fight the U.S. OR the U.S.S.R. Also without Hitlers interference the jet plane would have been put into production alot sooner and (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) the (...) I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how many millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the highest casualties in the entire war. What Bruce mentions below is also true. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Cool....if you don't like it stay out.We like all other nations have our problems but I still wouldn't want to live any place else! (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yeah, I'm not a big Stalin fan in any case, but it seems likely that goodly chunk of my ancestry was wiped out by his antics in the Ukraine. I hoped the ;^) would be a tip off, but, balancing that against my admission of ignorance, I can see (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The British brought in Scots Pres(oh geez, I can't remember how to spell this)byterians at a much later date. The Catholic/Protestant thing is not really independent of British occupation (topmost quote above). One could typify it as centuries (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Russia and Germany were engaged in the greatest land battle in the history of the planet. The scope and devastation of it was truly appalling - it's what ground Germany up. Of course, neither of those two sides was out to "save" Europe, and (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) My response to a wrong committed against me can only be in measured proportion to the wrong in question done to me. What I'm getting at, is that I can't morally punish a man for everything he's ever done - only the crime for which evidence has (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That was cool, though--kind of like watching me have a debate with myself. Dave! (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sorry for following myself up but I must say I stand corrected about Dave's meaning. I wasn't too sure I should have put words in his mouth and now it seems the words were wrong in the first place. Sorry All, I never really wanted to open the (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, now I've started I may as well get fully involved in .debate! Shaun You may like to consider separating British Military presence (which began in the early 1970's at the request of the Catholic community to protect them from Protestant (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yeah--call that some ham-fisted wording on my part. I was trying to isolate it to a theological dispute, but of course that very dispute stems from the occupation. So stipulated! (...) The basis of that claim is a failure to articulate what I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: [snip] (...) Hi Dave, The above comment really caught me by surprise - I've never before heard of any theory or perspective that could justifiably separate the Catholic/Protestant friction in Northern (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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