Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:33:51 GMT
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Viewed:
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1454 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
> > I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how many
> > millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the
> > highest casualties in the entire war
>
> The only question is how many of these 25 million did Stalin off himself
> (there should be a smiley here, but it is kind of hard to use one when
> talking about this kinda of mega-death).
Nah, that's about the figure accepted for war-related mass
democide. Stalin's tally is *on top of that*.
> > The Soviet army reached Hitler's bunker first.
>
> That was a political deal.
Now, this is interesting. What's the political deal you heard?
I know that the Germans were evacuating soldiers and civilians
en masse to the West to surrender to the British, French, and US.
But I've never heard of any particular "deal," it was just sort
of understood--and encouraged, because some of those escapees
were to prove quite useful in the Cold War.
> > The Battle of Kursk was one of the greatest tank battles in history (Soviets
> > won).
>
> The Soviets had very good tanks, and lots of them.
And really, really, REALLY fearless tankers. Have you ever
crawled into the turret of a T-34/76 or a T-34/85? A coffin
would be quite roomy by comparison (but about the same shape,
as I remarked after my turn under the cupola). Not only did
the Soviets have the material to throw at the Germans, but
they were possessed of a zeal and willingness to sacrifice
for the defence of the nation that remains strong among the
veterans even today.
> > The Soviet army destroyed (i.e. completely) practically all the German armies
> > that had invaded the U.S.S.R.
>
> The death camps you don't hear about - if Hitler was a bigger monster, it
> wasn't because Stalin didn't try. (another dubious smiley placement)
I discovered this page, written by a librarian:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm
And it's actually quite eloquent. He points out how hard it is to
compare the monsters, to gauge intent, and to tally results.
His numbers are pretty defensible on the whole, especially on Mao.
The whole site, while not big on flash and graphics, makes for
some really, really, REALLY sobering reading--and he gives his
sources quite clearly. Read the US litany anytime you're feeling
*too* triumphalist...;)
best
LFB
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) Actually, I understood that, but was trying to make the point in a simpler fashion. Alas, I seem to have failed. (...) It was agreed that the British and Americans would not advance on Berlin to make sure the Russians had the "honor" of taking (...) (23 years ago, 7-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) The only question is how many of these 25 million did Stalin off himself (there should be a smiley here, but it is kind of hard to use one when talking about this kinda of mega-death). (...) That was a political deal. (...) The Soviets had (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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