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Subject: 
Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:32:35 GMT
Viewed: 
1508 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
I have to confess that my WWII knowledge is somewhat less than • exhaustive.
However, while I don't deny the importance of the US role, it's tricky to
say (although Greg has now clarified that he was being sarcastic) that the
US "saved" Europe, which implies to me that the US was somehow
singlehandedly responsible for fending off the German army.
What I really want to know is where the heck was Russia during all this
Nazi stuff?  ;^)

I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how • many
millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the
highest casualties in the entire war.

  Thereabouts.  The true tally can never be known, at least not
  in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources
  (probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely.  The
  reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million.  In any case,
  that's a WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE.

Yeah, it's quite shocking.


Other things:

The Battle of Stalingrad (and also one of the worst battles in the war) was a
*HUGE* turning point in the war.

  Don't forget about the siege of Leningrad, which is often forgotten--
  if I'm not mistaken, it was one of the two or three longest sieges in
  recorded history.  They were completely cut off for three years, and
  refused to surrender--and they were reduced to some pretty low living.
  Wow.  And this was in a Baltic Sea that the Germans dominated the
  entire time!

Yeah, the Russians don't give up very easily. Thank God (and I'm not religious
;-D) they didn't, things could have went differently...


The Soviet army reached Hitler's bunker first.

  Yes, but Berlin's to the East.  :D

Hehe... yeah. ;-)


The Battle of Kursk was one of the greatest tank battles in history (Soviets
won).

  It was, in fact, the largest armored confrontation of all time.
  Some 4,000 vehicles, if memory serves--the Soviets used the T-34's
  mobility *very* effectively.

Two million soldiers as well!


The Soviet army destroyed (i.e. completely) practically all the German armies
that had invaded the U.S.S.R.

  They either destroyed them or, like an amoeba, gobbled them up--
  and German land doctrine was the *precise antithesis* of their
  sea doctrine--no retreat, no surrender, not one step to the north,
  not one step to the south.  Sort of like a Moscow-Going Zax.

Yeah, even that bit scares me. I can only imagine how difficult it must have
been for the Soviets the press on forward and never be able to retreat. Quite
horrible, but it did win the war.


Sorry, this post does sound very one sided, but not enough is said about the
U.S.S.R. and it's role in WWII. However, most Americans love
violent pro-American WWII movies which glorify the war, and the U.S.S.R. and
its allies were the "Evil Commies" (yes, that was sarcasm), so this should • not
be very suprising. ;-)

  The really interesting thing about this comment is that the
  USSR produced these sorts of movies too!  We don't think of them
  because Russian just isn't a world language like it seemed it could
  become once--there are many WWII movies that show the businesslike,
  steely Soviets, who nevertheless are real and wholesome men and
  workers, while the American soldiers care only about carousing,
  about the spoils of war, and they're pampered and decadent.  The
  message isn't articulated exactly the converse from ours, which
  makes it even more interesting--for them, the ideology is the crux.

Well, I didn't know that (actually, I sorta expected they did; propaganda works
miracles ;-D).


  Anyways, if you get a chance to see a real Russian movie from
  during the Cold War about WWII (with subtitles, for most of you)
  take it--you'll never watch a war movie the same way again.  I
  sure can't!

Will do! ;-)


  best

  LFB

Thanks for the comments Lindsay! I wish you were my history teacher! ;-)

Mladen Pejic, over and out!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mladenpejic/



Message is in Reply To:
  Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
 
(...) Thereabouts. The true tally can never be known, at least not in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources (probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely. The reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million. In (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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