Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:32:35 GMT
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Viewed:
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1495 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> > > > I have to confess that my WWII knowledge is somewhat less than • exhaustive.
> > > > However, while I don't deny the importance of the US role, it's tricky to
> > > > say (although Greg has now clarified that he was being sarcastic) that the
> > > > US "saved" Europe, which implies to me that the US was somehow
> > > > singlehandedly responsible for fending off the German army.
> > > > What I really want to know is where the heck was Russia during all this
> > > > Nazi stuff? ;^)
> >
> > I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how • many
> > millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the
> > highest casualties in the entire war.
>
> Thereabouts. The true tally can never be known, at least not
> in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources
> (probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely. The
> reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million. In any case,
> that's a WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE.
Yeah, it's quite shocking.
>
> > Other things:
> >
> > The Battle of Stalingrad (and also one of the worst battles in the war) was a
> > *HUGE* turning point in the war.
>
> Don't forget about the siege of Leningrad, which is often forgotten--
> if I'm not mistaken, it was one of the two or three longest sieges in
> recorded history. They were completely cut off for three years, and
> refused to surrender--and they were reduced to some pretty low living.
> Wow. And this was in a Baltic Sea that the Germans dominated the
> entire time!
Yeah, the Russians don't give up very easily. Thank God (and I'm not religious
;-D) they didn't, things could have went differently...
>
> > The Soviet army reached Hitler's bunker first.
>
> Yes, but Berlin's to the East. :D
Hehe... yeah. ;-)
>
> > The Battle of Kursk was one of the greatest tank battles in history (Soviets
> > won).
>
> It was, in fact, the largest armored confrontation of all time.
> Some 4,000 vehicles, if memory serves--the Soviets used the T-34's
> mobility *very* effectively.
Two million soldiers as well!
>
> > The Soviet army destroyed (i.e. completely) practically all the German armies
> > that had invaded the U.S.S.R.
>
> They either destroyed them or, like an amoeba, gobbled them up--
> and German land doctrine was the *precise antithesis* of their
> sea doctrine--no retreat, no surrender, not one step to the north,
> not one step to the south. Sort of like a Moscow-Going Zax.
Yeah, even that bit scares me. I can only imagine how difficult it must have
been for the Soviets the press on forward and never be able to retreat. Quite
horrible, but it did win the war.
>
> > Sorry, this post does sound very one sided, but not enough is said about the
> > U.S.S.R. and it's role in WWII. However, most Americans love
> > violent pro-American WWII movies which glorify the war, and the U.S.S.R. and
> > its allies were the "Evil Commies" (yes, that was sarcasm), so this should • not
> > be very suprising. ;-)
>
> The really interesting thing about this comment is that the
> USSR produced these sorts of movies too! We don't think of them
> because Russian just isn't a world language like it seemed it could
> become once--there are many WWII movies that show the businesslike,
> steely Soviets, who nevertheless are real and wholesome men and
> workers, while the American soldiers care only about carousing,
> about the spoils of war, and they're pampered and decadent. The
> message isn't articulated exactly the converse from ours, which
> makes it even more interesting--for them, the ideology is the crux.
Well, I didn't know that (actually, I sorta expected they did; propaganda works
miracles ;-D).
>
> Anyways, if you get a chance to see a real Russian movie from
> during the Cold War about WWII (with subtitles, for most of you)
> take it--you'll never watch a war movie the same way again. I
> sure can't!
Will do! ;-)
>
> best
>
> LFB
Thanks for the comments Lindsay! I wish you were my history teacher! ;-)
Mladen Pejic, over and out!
http://www3.sympatico.ca/mladenpejic/
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) Thereabouts. The true tally can never be known, at least not in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources (probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely. The reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million. In (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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