Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:25:53 GMT
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Viewed:
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1495 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mladen Pejic writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> > > I have to confess that my WWII knowledge is somewhat less than exhaustive.
> > > However, while I don't deny the importance of the US role, it's tricky to
> > > say (although Greg has now clarified that he was being sarcastic) that the
> > > US "saved" Europe, which implies to me that the US was somehow
> > > singlehandedly responsible for fending off the German army.
> > > What I really want to know is where the heck was Russia during all this
> > > Nazi stuff? ;^)
>
> I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how many
> millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the
> highest casualties in the entire war.
Thereabouts. The true tally can never be known, at least not
in *this* life--even your source admits that his three sources
(probably Volkogonov, Conquest, and Messenger) vary widely. The
reputable sources hover between 20 and 27 million. In any case,
that's a WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE.
> Other things:
>
> The Battle of Stalingrad (and also one of the worst battles in the war) was a
> *HUGE* turning point in the war.
Don't forget about the siege of Leningrad, which is often forgotten--
if I'm not mistaken, it was one of the two or three longest sieges in
recorded history. They were completely cut off for three years, and
refused to surrender--and they were reduced to some pretty low living.
Wow. And this was in a Baltic Sea that the Germans dominated the
entire time!
> The Soviet army reached Hitler's bunker first.
Yes, but Berlin's to the East. :D
> The Battle of Kursk was one of the greatest tank battles in history (Soviets
> won).
It was, in fact, the largest armored confrontation of all time.
Some 4,000 vehicles, if memory serves--the Soviets used the T-34's
mobility *very* effectively.
> The Soviet army destroyed (i.e. completely) practically all the German armies
> that had invaded the U.S.S.R.
They either destroyed them or, like an amoeba, gobbled them up--
and German land doctrine was the *precise antithesis* of their
sea doctrine--no retreat, no surrender, not one step to the north,
not one step to the south. Sort of like a Moscow-Going Zax.
> Sorry, this post does sound very one sided, but not enough is said about the
> U.S.S.R. and it's role in WWII. However, most Americans love
> violent pro-American WWII movies which glorify the war, and the U.S.S.R. and
> its allies were the "Evil Commies" (yes, that was sarcasm), so this should not
> be very suprising. ;-)
The really interesting thing about this comment is that the
USSR produced these sorts of movies too! We don't think of them
because Russian just isn't a world language like it seemed it could
become once--there are many WWII movies that show the businesslike,
steely Soviets, who nevertheless are real and wholesome men and
workers, while the American soldiers care only about carousing,
about the spoils of war, and they're pampered and decadent. The
message isn't articulated exactly the converse from ours, which
makes it even more interesting--for them, the ideology is the crux.
Anyways, if you get a chance to see a real Russian movie from
during the Cold War about WWII (with subtitles, for most of you)
take it--you'll never watch a war movie the same way again. I
sure can't!
best
LFB
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) exhaustive. (...) many (...) Yeah, it's quite shocking. (...) Yeah, the Russians don't give up very easily. Thank God (and I'm not religious ;-D) they didn't, things could have went differently... (...) Hehe... yeah. ;-) (...) Two million (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) the (...) I'm very suprised (almost shocked!) that you say this? Don't you know how many millions of Russians died during WWII??? [1] 25,568,000!!! These are the highest casualties in the entire war. What Bruce mentions below is also true. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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