 | | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) I don't know about other people, but I tend to go into an auction (more often a parts auction than an auction server, but the principle still applies) with two things. A maximum budget, and a list of things I want. so if I'm looking at A and (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Hmm, how so? Can you give an example? (...) I think a byproduct of assigning labels to bid types is confusion about what's really going on. What's really going on in a "proxy bid" is this: You have a bid range -- an ordered pair (x,y), where x (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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In lugnet.market.auction, John DiRienzo writes: <snippage> (...) Todd answered most of your points much more sensibly than I could, but I still want to reply this one. Any system (auction or otherwise) that encourages unfair activity, deserves at (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) I've placed proxy bids which did not meet the seller's reserve. I couldn't figure out an easy way to force my minimum up and in a few cases not met the reserve because no one else came along to bump up my proxy. So I assume that a firm bid (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) increment (...) make (...) Now wait, screwed by who? To blame the auction system is just a way of shifting the blame - you knew before hand when the auction would end and could at any time have raised your proxy, if you were willing to pay (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) It doesn't allow them to withdraw their bid. It allows them to reduce their private maximum. This hurts neither the seller nor the other bidders in any way. (...) A firm bid is a special case of a proxy bid in which the minimum and maximum (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Allowing someone to lower the "secret" part of the bid (the proxy max) is Definitely a Good Thing. If the min/current is $x and the max/proxy is $y, it's important to let the bidder lower $y -- at any time -- to any value (...) This is (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Really? Consider this scenario that could happen at SeriousCollector You have an item won, sitting at 400, and your max proxy is 500. Someone outbids you with a hard bid of 500.01 (lucky guess on their part) which gets rounded to 500.50 under (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:28:47 GMT, "John DiRienzo" <jdiri14897@email.msn.com> wrote: [stuff about eBay, and proxy bidding, and bid increments] About the issue of whether new bids have to beat the proxy by the increment amount, I say this: as long as (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) assume it (...) net (...) bid of (...) proxy. (...) proxy (...) For all the condemnation eBay recieves, I still believe it is one of the best systems made. The system described above is not good at all, IMO, if it allows a person to make a (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: HUGE Auction, Train, Technic, Town and Pirates!
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Just a note to thank the many people who have bid thus far! The auction is exceeding my expectations at this point, but there are still many apparent bargains. Assuming the following lots sell for reasonable prices, I will be adding more next week. (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) it (...) proxy. (...) So in a similar scenario to the one Larry's pointed out - if I come along with a $200 firm bid (and a $250 maximum) just before your phone bill arrives, then I don't get the shuttle, and your firm bid shoots up to $250. (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Sorry - I actually meant to say that some replies had indicated that AucZILLA doesn't work _in the way Larry had described_, not that it doesn't work (full stop). Reading through my last posting, there was a comma after 'work' which shouldn't (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Well, I can appreciate the technical elegance but I'm not sure I think this is a good thing or not. Basically you're saying that as a bidder, you can retract the "secret" part of your bid, as long as it hasn't been revealed yet. In your (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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The bidding mechanism also has some new functionality. Assume the current lot is open with no bids and a $10 minimum. Next, assume it is an Airport Shuttle - built once. I make a firm bid of $150, fine. I then make a proxy bid of $400. The net (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Larry, I must protest! In designing the system, I wanted first of all to allow firm bidding - which is an important signialing tool in an auction. But the 'common' rules in proxy-only auctions would have bestowed every advantage upon the proxy bid, (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) No. Not required. The auction system doesn't have to be fair to be working "correctly". But the RULES can be broken. And I'm with you, the rules in eBay that allow a one penny overbid to take a solid wide range proxy bid away are indeed (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) I don't know if you're splitting hairs, but splitting hairs is probably a good thing in this case. :I This whole area/topic (auction theory) is something that I'm extremely opinionated[1] about -- and not afraid to show it, even at the risk of (...) (26 years ago, 21-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Glen's Assorted Lego Auction - 4/20 Update
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*** Items have progressed to "Going 2". If no new bids are received, the auction will progress to "Sold" on Thursday 4/22. Items with bids will progress every two days until sold. *** Hello all. It is time again for another auction. Following is a (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Maybe a bit subjective, yeah. :) (...) And fairly. (...) I'll explain why it's broken below... (...) The behavior isn't broken given the rules. The rules are broken. EBay's rule (requiring a new bid to exceed the current bid by the minimum (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Auction: Model Team/Technics/Town
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(...) As usual, if you pay me in USD, you pay 1.00 extra. If you pay in UK pound sterling you pay <whatever it costs you to arrange for that> extra. If you live in the US, usually I am cheaper, but you decide what you want to do. (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Not to split hairs, here, because now that I'm reassured that AucZILLA works the way it does, I like the way it works... but isn't "correct" a bit of a stretch? I'd say an auction system is working "correctly" if the rules it claims to (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Any indications that AucZILLA doesn't work correctly have been incorrect. (...) What do you mean by "this way" and by "that sort of algorithm"? By "computationally inefficient" do you mean 1/1000 second versus 1/10000 second to process a bid? (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Update 4/19/99 pm: Pirate Auction - correction
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Hello all, Well, I goofed. Osvaldo's bid on 725 is actually $35. I'm sorry if this confused anyone. Current bids: 725 Osvaldo Fernandez $35 Going once 6289 Alex Eulen $100 Sold 6289 Otis Anderson $100 Sold 6289 Frank Filz $110 Sold 6263 Frank Filz (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Auction: Model Team/Technics/Town
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I've decided to take the plunge - unbelievably though it may sound, I actually appear to have more Lego than I want at the moment - so it's time to auction some off. I'm offering the following 5591 MODEL TEAM Mach II Red Bird Rig bids opening at $50 (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Apart from a few replies that have indicated AUCZilla and possibly others don't work, this way, I'd be surprised if any bidding software actually used that sort of algorithm to calculate the new bid, simply because it's such a computationally (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Yes, of course. (...) That's broken. --Todd (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Here's a couple items from eBay's FAQ for bidders that should clear up how eBay proxy bidding works. The second one clears up scenario 3. Rob ----- Excerpted from: (URL) I bid against myself, and yet the bid increased. Why? A. Normally a (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) SCENARIO 3 Bidder A bids $100, with a proxy max of $150. Bidder B bids $150.01, bid type is irrelevant. Outcome: B is High bidder with $150.01, and increment is ignored. A has no first bid benefit - a trade-off for the benefit in scenarios 1 (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Update 4/19/99 pm: Pirate Auction - New Item added (Basic Building Set 725)
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Hello all, Well, this is the end for the most part, congratulations to those that won. I will be sending out individualized e-mails tomorrow to each person detailing what they won. Current bids: 725 Osvaldo Fernandez $30 Going once 6289 Alex Eulen (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) What is the outcome of each of these scenarios?... SCENARIO 4A Time Time Page Loaded Bid Posted Bidder Bid Proxy Max ===...=== ===...=== ====== ======= ===...=== 12:14:33 12:15:07 A $100.00 $150.00 12:23:11 12:23:19 B $150.00 n/a 12:23:14 (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) No, that was my second statement -- <grin> -- it was posted two minutes after the first one, quoted above. (...) It's especially tricky sometimes to read what's going on when there are multiple identical copies of lots. (...) A keeps it under (...) (26 years ago, 20-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Glen's Assorted Lego Auction - 4/19 Update
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*** All items are now "Going 1". If no new bids are received, the auction will progress ever 2 week days until "Sold". If new bids are recieved, they will progress to "Going 1" after two days of no new bids. Next progression will be on Tuesday (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) Good. (note that this is clearer than your first statement "AucZILLA works the 'correct'<emphasis mine> way" :-) ) I was getting myself into a panic for nothing, I must have been misreading the results I was examining. What about Derick's (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) AucZILLA works the correct way. (...) Yup, that's correct. --Todd (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) In the AucZILLA system, the lot is awarded to A (not B) for 13, because A's bid of 13 came in first. (...) Yes. (...) AucZILLA gives priority to the earlier of two equal bids, regardless of automatic increments. It would go to A for 13, not to (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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Larry, We pulled our hair out over this one too. In an attempt to be fair - in an environment that allows both firm and proxy bids - we arrived at the following, which acts in favor of the existing high bidder in 2 of 3 cases:: Starting bid $100. (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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(...) I think AucZILLA works differently (but I can't recall for certain - that's Todd's baby) I know e-bay does it differently(1), which implies, at least, that Everyauction and similar servers would follow suit. I know that on most e-bay bids I (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Re: Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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I don't know how AucZILLA works- but a lot of commercial auction sites claim to have taken this into account and claim that the earlier bid would win. When describing proxy bidding, sites like ebay state: "Also, in case of a tie for high bidder, (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | Proxy ratcheting: How do auction systems work?
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I (as well as all other participants) got a note from Ian Bishop in early March about a proxy quandary that had arisen. Seems he had a bidder that had bid 285 (a winning bid at the time) with proxy cap of 300. Someone else subsequently bid 300. Ian (...) (26 years ago, 19-Apr-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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