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In lugnet.general, Kelly McKiernan wrote:
> In lugnet.announce, Willy Tschager wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > after posting this message http://news.lugnet.com/cad/dev/org/ldraw/?n=3467 (the
> > post has been canceled in the meantime) containing the following sentence:
>
> - snip -
>
> This discussion venue, despite what many obviously believe, does not have an
> agenda to tell you what you should think or what to believe. It's a simple
> request, really: please just keep the cussing down.
>
> Let me be clear on one thing. A request to not use strong profanity is NOT to
> avoid offending anybody. Anybody can choose to take offense over anything
> whatsoever. It's a choice YOU make whether or not to be offended, whether or not
> offense is intended. Orion is correct in that language usage is not inherently a
> trigger; it's how you react to it that's the trigger.
>
> YES, a request to edit your post can be considered censorship. Accept it or not,
> your choice. YES, admins have the right and responsibility to ask for you to
> cancel and repost your message. NO, we do not currently cancel posts without
> explicit consent from you. This is a choice made to respect the members of this
> community. It is the least heavy-handed administration I have ever come across
> in a public forum.
>
> To remind everyone why this is an issue: the reason that we have made the
> decision to limit profanity is due to the family-friendly nature of the LEGO
> product. Were this a more "adult" oriented hobby (as in age interest), this rule
> probably wouldn't be here.
>
> But by the very nature of this hobby, children are likely to be exposed to this
> forum in one way or another. Regardless of your own personal mores and attitudes
> on language usage, it is common practice in "the real world" for minors to not
> be intentionally exposed to harsher language. MPAA movie ratings are an example
> of this, whether you personally agree with them or not.
>
> It really is that simple.
>
> If this community overwhelmingly demands the rights to use profanity without
> consequence, it's my personal opinion that it would harm the overall LEGO set of
> communities. A large part of what we as AFOLs do at shows and in public is to
> promote LEGO as a hobby, a family-friendly alternative to ubiquitous video
> gaming or mindless TV. If one of the premier LEGO enthusiast communities
> developed into a non-family-friendly site (e.g. containing "mature" content),
> that hypocrisy would undermine the vast amounts of goodwill that many of you
> have helped to foster. Is that what you want to do?
>
> I ask everyone in this thread who found it necessary to intentionally disregard
> the language rule to rethink their post, and request a cancel and repost. You
> can get your point across without the language.
Would it surprise you if I wrote that I agree with most of what you wrote?
The thing is that some long standing Lugnet members are getting very upset about
getting threatening email regarding what may have been a comment in passing.
This fact alone should tell you that something might be wrong with the way
things are done.
It is my belief that one slip does not equal a trend nor does one slip warrant a
timeout or even a threat of timeout. For example, I'm in the Navy and as some
may know sailors are notorious for their language. It's no different with
myself but only when I'm at work. When I visit my Dad I make an effort to
"clean up" my conversation since I know that he'd probably not like it if I
cussed every third word but I do slip on occasion. Instead overreacting and
admonishing me when I do slip he ignores it and we continue our conversation
like nothing happened. I think the same idea should apply here on Lugnet.
In how many of Willy's posts has he posted a so called "bad" word? The only one
I have read is the one that sparked this debate. I think that instead of
immediately firing off a threatening email, the admin should have let it drop.
We're not five year olds. We don't need to stand in a circle around Willy
pointing our fingers and saying "Oooooh, you said a bad word". We can simply
act like my dad in the above example a carry on as if nothing happened. One
slip in a thousand instances should not warrant any action. It is my opinion
that if the violation was willfully inflammatory or represented a continuing
trend that only then should the admin's should take or threaten action.
I realize that it's the admins choice to enforce the rules as they see fit and I
respect that right. I'm thankful that the relationship between the admins and
the masses is such that I can offer my opinion and I know that it will be
considered. It is my hope that with this discussion the people on both sides of
this issue will be able to compromise since the loss of a Lugnet member,
especially one as prominent as Willy, is always a bad occurrence should be
avoided with all reasonable efforts.
-Orion
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Bye, bye LUGNET
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| In lugnet.general, Orion Pobursky wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> I realize that it's the admins choice to enforce the rules as they see fit and I (...) And the voice of reason. Thanks Orion for stating it succinctly. As a continuation of a few points, (...) (20 years ago, 1-Mar-05, to lugnet.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Bye, bye LUGNET
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| (...) - snip - This discussion venue, despite what many obviously believe, does not have an agenda to tell you what you should think or what to believe. It's a simple request, really: please just keep the cussing down. Let me be clear on one thing. (...) (20 years ago, 1-Mar-05, to lugnet.general)
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