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 | | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Buying allegiance is not restricted to the "Muslim world". Right now I expect Bush is horse-trading all over. His case is that strong. (...) Part of the problem is that the USA did not pay what it said it would last time around. Bush should (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Regarding the US, I have no insight. Regarding France, two things take place: a) the vast majority of the muslim citizens has a feeling of distance towards politics (to which a number of explanations concurr); b) the extremists who do exist (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Oh my goodness--I actually agree with John! Eep! (1) Dave K (1) all except the attack on 9-11. Whereas I don't think that American foreign policy is the *only* reason for 9-11, the slip-shod American foreign policy has negatively impacted (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) I think you misunderstood me. By "doing nothing" I don't mean about just Saddam. I mean every dictator, even the ones the US is friendly toward. Untill all of the people of the world are free from tyranny, (including but not limited to US and (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| [snip] (...) Now that is really interesting. Then again they gave Arafat a Nobel peace prize too. [snip] (...) no (...) All of that falsely assumes Saddam would not destroy the oil infrastructure as a parting gift. (...) war. (...) Freeing the Iraqi (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Agreed. <snip> (...) Okay, but what about the vast Muslim population in free societies such as the US, or even, say, France? (...) Okay, I see your point. But realize that even within Christianity itself there are *vast* differences, to the (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Have you even looked? From Aug '98 [ie before the USA woke up to terrorism]: Fight terrorism, but not through Draconian laws (URL) Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said the British Muslim community has no sympathy whatsoever for any act of (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) If they actually knew what freedom was, would they still not want it? Until everyone is free, peace will never exist. I think it would be worth the cost of both money and lives if we (everyone on Earth) could teach our grandchildren's children (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Paper Tigers [Re: What about the first?]
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| (...) I feared that quote may have been erroneous. I did some checking. It turns up only in one place on the web: (URL) someone observed to Winston Churchill that his predecessor as prime minister, Neville Chamberlain, was a humble man, Churchill is (...) (22 years ago, 20-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Canadians aren't hell-bent on going to war, and we at least try to have a cohesive and responsible foreign policy, without the pretension that we do. (...) I have said elsewhere that Saddam is a bad man--a very very very bad man (waggles (...) (22 years ago, 18-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Wrong in the sense that I never said that U.S. companies do not benefit from Middle Eastern oil in any way. Dave is saying we want their oil because we are sucking up so much Middle Eastern oil (and specifically Iraqi oil) with our SUVs. My (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) I'll make my point below. (...) I don't watch CNN-- heck, I don't watch network news either because as you correctly point out, they are agenda-driven. (...) I agree, and here is my point. *Sensible*, rational Arabs need to SPEAK OUT against (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) How do you know that? Christianity never impeded war or terrorist actions in the past; they happen despite it, sometimes because of it. It's void to say 99.5% of Christians condemn such violence. Why didn't you write 99.5% of the people in (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) I love analogies... If I know someone who has an alcohol problem, do I have to have an alcohol problem? If I know someone who hates Islam and wants to kill anyone who believes in that religion, do I have to carry a gun and start shooting as (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) I'd "venture" 99% of the terrorism the UK has suffered has been perpetrated people who'd call themselves "Christians". However, Christianity is not what drives them. – it’s greed, nationalism and to a lesser extent some form of political (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) No, but if you do, then perhaps you should attend to yourself before lecturing others. (major snip) (...) I read where you were running on about someone hating Islam, which has nothing to do with the subject at hand, so I simply deleted it as (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) What I want you to realize is that writing off valid points as 'straw man arguments' and 'wiggling and changing the tune', and deleting examples that are completely valid and true (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The beginning of the end of NATO?
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| It has most likely been mentioned here before, but I'm too lazy to read thru all messages in this thread. NATO was made to stop Soviet Communism to take over the whole planet. That was a good thing, very easy to unite to. Now that the Soviet empire (...) (22 years ago, 17-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) Arrgg. This kind of moral equivalency is probably the most aggravating characteristic of the Left. To be unable to distinguish between being morally good and evil is *basic*! Dave, you sound silly when you call Bush or Blair "bad", but call (...) (22 years ago, 18-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What about the first?
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| (...) You are correct, you did not say that at any time. I also did not say you did say it... :-) I just call your attention to the fact that it would be wrong *if* you had that in mind. Therefere I chose the words "as you said it" to be highlighted (...) (22 years ago, 19-Feb-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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