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		Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
(...) This is what I meant in specific: (URL) there's actually two true/false statements which go before that. Just give an agree/disagree (or a mostly agree/mostly disagree) (I mostly disagree with both, btw -- see my reply to the above post for (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

rights, property
(score: 0.634)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Long as its a 12 long technic axle so it can bend a bit.... 8?) (...) I think this is all consistent with my (current) view that we don't have any "fundamental" rights. They're all derived from our (collective) experience over the ages of (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.634)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) You have asked this already. I have answered it already. (...) I think we tend to group socially with those who have morals which match our own. (...) Your own values are your own. We are all individuals. (...) A great deal. (...) Yes (...) It (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.634)

		Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
(...) <snip> (...) I can agree that if the writing was a breach of a predetermined parole condition, then he does deserve to be punished. If it was not, then I feel that it is an invasion of privacy which cannot be tolerated. The individual in the (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.634)

		Re: Nature of rights? (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
At this moment I am drinking Mountain Dew; Code Red. I have the ability to drink it and have chosen to do so. The right to drink it is mine, I have given this right to myself. If, this afternoon, I were to learn that the governments of the world (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) They are one of the most extreme "animal rights" organizations. While I do feel there probably are some bad practices with animals, I don't think blowing up buildings, burning buildings, and other such destructive (and possibly endangering (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Nature of rights? (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) It sounds like you're were going somewhere good and have given up Larry. I assume (hope!) your goal in all this was not to get to the point where you could just tell folks that they don't understand rights. I think there must be common (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) "Meat related agricultural..." Seems a little vague to me, but I think I understand what you are getting at from the rest of the thread. You'll also have to bear with me since I am at work and am unwilling to go to either site while at work. (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) I understand the motivation too, I think (who can be sure they understand the motivation of others?). But I cannot condone force initiation. We must exhaust the rule of law first before we get that extreme. I share your concern about farming (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) that (...) But you could argue that rights we've given to ourselves are just privileges that we all happen to agree on. Based mostly on the fact that we'll sue whoever disagrees. 8?) (...) I think "rights" has no real meaning or usefulness (...) (23 years ago, 2-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Nature of rights? (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) So you really do believe that ability == right. Why even use the word right instead of ability? Ability has no confusing connotations to other members of society, after all. (...) This I won't buy. I just zipped over to dictionary.com to show (...) (23 years ago, 3-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
(...) Exactly my point. The statement "It is not very nice to yell at loved ones" therefore does not hold, because it is untrue in extremes. It does not mean it is always not "not very nice", but that the statemtent/theory itself is not (...) (23 years ago, 4-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
(...) True. This in fact appears to be true of all governments, no matter whether they start out just and democratic or not. And that's my issue with government, it's what our founding fathers tried to combat, imperfectly. We have a bill of rights (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Really? That's something I didn't know (but then again I dislike all seafood anyway so I know very little about it). Just out of curiousity, how does it make them poisonous? Is there some sort of drastic chemical change that happens when (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) I never said they must emerge in their "fully developed" state-- only that they must, at some point, be considered "self-aware" at some point. And again, that's only assuming that at one point they DON'T exist AT ALL, and at another (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Didn't I explain this before? I'm asking Larry where the line he's imagining is, not saying anything about what I believe with that statement-- And again, IF one asserts that animals do NOT have rights, and that humans DO, at some (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
(...) Your comment about a lack of respect for property is a good one. To those opposed to the Libertarian ideal, think about the effect that government not respecting property rights transforms the populace into not respecting property rights (or (...) (25 years ago, 13-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

rights, property
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) I think there's a real difference between burning down a supposedly empty building (the reports I've read weren't "empty" buildings, and destroyed not just the potentially abusive research, but also research which did not use animals) and (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
>>In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes: >> >>Seeing how horrid our agricultural practices are... (...) Then I'll rephrase it: "Seeing how horrid much of America's meat related agricultural practices are, in my opinion,..." Is that more (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

		Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
(...) Sort of, but you seem to keep forcing the choice to be made between only two options in a field of possibilities. (...) Not necessarily wrong, but the attempt is misguided if it seeks to form a hard distinction where none exists. You're (...) (23 years ago, 5-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

all, rights
(score: 0.633)

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