Subject:
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Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:16:43 GMT
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Viewed:
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1338 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes: • <snip>
> > If we start locking people up for fantasy writing, even when intent has not
> > been shown, then we've lost too much freedom.
>
> In general, I am in complete agreement with you. However, the individual
> in this case had in fact previously demonstrated intent of a sort (though
> not to the extent apparently indicated in the journal) and if in fact such a
> journal was a breach of a previously-agreed-to parole requirement, I don't
> see how it's a problem to find him in violation of parole, though not of any
> other crime, unless another crime was committed.
I can agree that if the writing was a breach of a predetermined parole
condition, then he does deserve to be punished. If it was not, then I feel
that it is an invasion of privacy which cannot be tolerated.
The individual in the article previously committed a crime and paid his dues
according to the law. To discriminate against him after he has paid his debt
to society reduces the chances that he will be a productive member of the
community. Not all criminals are repeat offenders.
>
> > Innocent until proven guilty - private journal entries that have no basis in
> > reality shouldn't prove guilt (guilt of WHAT, in this case? A deranged
> > mind? Fine. But did he DO it? NO!).
>
> As a hypothetical example, let's say that you were planning to attend
> Brickfest. Learning this, I write in my journal an elaborate and
> excruciatingly detailed account of how I plan to murder you, down to the
> specifics of the weapon and the time and place of the attack, contrived in
> such a way that I wouldn't get caught (this is hypothetical, after all).
> Suppose that I then show up at the pre-planned location exactly as I'd
> described in my journal, including my clothing and the weapon I use, and I
> proceed to murder you and make my escape. Afterwards, during the
> investigation, my journal is found, but no other evidence linking me to your
> death. Would such a journal be admissable as evidence, since no other
> evidence existed? Couldn't I--though guilty--argue that the journal is a
> fiction and is no proof of intent, even if the details in the journal and
> the details of your death are identical?
If the hypothetical situation which you described happened, then the
writings could be admissible as evidence - after the fact (or with probable
cause) and provided that proper procedure was used in securing the evidence
(in this case the journal). It would show that the crime was premeditated.
If the crime never happened, then there is no reason for anyone to read it
and your rights are protected. The minute a crime is committed, certain
rights are forfeited (freedom for example).
> In real life, obviously, I wouldn't try such a thing, nor have I written
> about your murder (nor anyone else's) in a journal or elsewhere. I don't
> have any immutable answers on the issue, either; I'm still sorting out the
> particulars of my own opinion.
>
> Dave!
-Duane
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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| (...) This seems problematic. The minute a crime is committed, presumably they have no idea whodunnit. So who exactly forfeits rights? And which ones? I guess I disagree. Among our rights (which are not forfeited even as a suspect) are due process. (...) (23 years ago, 17-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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| (...) It's entirely possible that a PRIVATE journal entry (I'm reluctant to call it a "journal of fantasy" since it's difficult to establish after-the-fact whether a journal was intended as fantasy or as a plan of attack) can represent one's (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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