Subject:
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Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 16 Jul 2001 18:49:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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1307 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> > Writing a PRIVATE journal of fantasy has absolutely nothing to do with an
> > ACTUAL crime, nor even intent.
>
> It's entirely possible that a PRIVATE journal entry (I'm reluctant to call
> it a "journal of fantasy" since it's difficult to establish after-the-fact
> whether a journal was intended as fantasy or as a plan of attack) can
> represent one's intentions, though of course it isn't necessarily--or even
> often--the case.
That's true, but I think Tom's point is that this is a dangerous thing to allow
the courts. Even if it can sometimes avenge or even prevent crimes, the link
between most kinds of writing and future events is too tenuous to generaly
admit as evidence. I would not object to a perp's written letter to newspapers
or the police being used as evidence, but that seems materially different. I
don't keep a journal, but if I did, there might be bits that went something
like "X was a real jackass at work today, I'd like to see him dead." Should
the court have the right and ability to check my writing and use this as
evidence to try me? I think not.
Further, It seems to me that this particular deranged individual might need
some kind of ficticious outlet like that to let off steam so that he needn't
bend to his internal pressures. Obviously I'm speculating wildly, but I think
that making a case for there being a victim of a fictional story is pretty
tough.
> > If we start locking people up for fantasy writing, even when intent has not
> > been shown, then we've lost too much freedom.
>
> In general, I am in complete agreement with you. However, the individual
> in this case had in fact previously demonstrated intent of a sort (though
> not to the extent apparently indicated in the journal) and if in fact such a
> journal was a breach of a previously-agreed-to parole requirement, I don't
> see how it's a problem to find him in violation of parole, though not of any
> other crime, unless another crime was committed.
I agree.
[snip]
> In real life, obviously, I wouldn't try such a thing, nor have I written
> about your murder (nor anyone else's) in a journal or elsewhere. I don't
> have any immutable answers on the issue, either; I'm still sorting out the
> particulars of my own opinion.
It would depend mostly on how the journal was recovered. I'm assuming that
enough detail can be matched between the 'story' and the event to be reasonably
sure that coincidence can be ruled out. If the evidence was obtained legally,
then it should be presented to a jury. If they aren't sure, then they
shouldn't convict.
It is better that ten guilty men go free, than that one innocent man is
punished.
Chris
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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| (...) Yeah--a journal is, traditionally, a private forum for articulating one's thoughts. A letter to the papers could easily be construed as a statement of intent. I'm still torn, though; in college I argued passionately for the impossibility of (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Laws about sex.... (was something else)
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| (...) It's entirely possible that a PRIVATE journal entry (I'm reluctant to call it a "journal of fantasy" since it's difficult to establish after-the-fact whether a journal was intended as fantasy or as a plan of attack) can represent one's (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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