Subject:
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Re: Support for a 'young' earth.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:42:39 GMT
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Viewed:
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157 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Markus Wolf writes:
>
> > So therefore chromosomal change never happens? Is that the point?
>
> No, I think Downs Syndrome is a case of such chromosomal changes. I just
> want to know why critters that look so much alike outwardly are so
> genetically different and how they got to be that way. I wish I had the
> charts that I found in my college days. How does all that work?
Many organisms, particularly plants, cope very well with multiple copies of
the same (or similar) chromosomes. For example, modern agricultural wheat
has three "sub-genomes" which are more or less identical. Spelt (I think), a
more ancient grain, has only one of these genomes. So they're similar and
closely related species, but wheat has three times the number of chromosomes.
The other main source of variation in chromosome number is when chromosomes
join together or split in two: for instance two small chromosomes may attach
to each other to form one larger chromosome, reducing the total chromosome
number by one.
> re lungfish, see Dave!'s post
> > > And how many evolutional oopses did it take before it happened?
> >
> > Does it matter? How many Christians died before the Bible became widely
> > acccepted as the word of God?
>
> I guess it would have to matter for mathematical probability to make sense.
> How many Downs Syndrome children will be born before we give rise to X-men?
I don't know the statistics for this, but the theory is fairly
straightforward. No matter how many thousands of deleterious (harm-causing)
mutations take place, as soon as a mutation that confers a benefit arises it
will spread through the population. Have any of the X-men had an X-baby?
> Do we keep extending the age of the earth to account for the amount of time
> that had to take place for all these changes to take place. How do we
> determine that? I'm asking you.
Age of the Earth? Radioactive decay. Is 4.5 billion years long enough to
allow for plenty of mutation and natural selection to take place? Yep.
> re dinosaur cataclysm see Dave!'s reply.
>
> snip, snip
> What are your conclusions then? They have nothing to do with the age of the
> earth, but more sociological implications if we really are really just top
> of the dung heap.
Evolutionary psychology is a massive and controversial field. My glib one
sentence summary is that we may be pre-disposed to certain behaviours, but
ultimately our individual and collective behaviour should be mitigated by
conscience and culture.
> > > I must confess that despite lots of big words that scientists can use and
> > > lots of important names that smart people can name, I still think Planet of
> > > the Apes was a pretty unrealistic movie.
> >
> > The costumes sucked, sure. But why was it so unrealistic?
>
> Hmmm. The fact that only the monkeys evolved (so far as we could see)
Leaving aside any allegorical interpretation...
I bet we will see genetically "enhanced" apes within the next ten years.
Talking chimps by 2030.
> and they were speaking english.
What was that half-buried statue again ;^)?
> I haven't seen any but the first, and I question why the humans that were
> there under the dominion of the monkeys de-evolved? Were they another
> species, or did they survive better being dumb?
In the novel (IIRC) it's described as Frankenstein meets Spartacus, with a
bit of Gulliver's Travels and "The Time Machine" thrown in. Or maybe that's
just my interpretation.
> Please tell me why you consider the costumes to be the worst discrepancy.
Becuase they're so funny they actively interfere with my suspension of
disbelief.
Sorry for the bitter tone in my earlier post, I'm rapidly wearying of this
"debate".
--DaveL
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Support for a 'young' earth.
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| (...) I don't know if it would spread through the population. Before I go on, I really want to keep this on friendly terms. I'm not a fighter and I am a creationist. And as a Christian I don't feel any argument is worth the cost of mutual respect (...) (23 years ago, 10-Feb-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Support for a 'young' earth.
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| (...) No, I think Downs Syndrome is a case of such chromosomal changes. I just want to know why critters that look so much alike outwardly are so genetically different and how they got to be that way. I wish I had the charts that I found in my (...) (23 years ago, 9-Feb-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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