Debate : 3350


Off-Topic / Debate / 3350

Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Richard Franks
(...) Fair enough, but I still disagree :) I would say that a worthy artist is one who produces worthy art. I would also suggest that the requirement of any form of suffering or willingness to suffer, on behalf of the artist, is an intellectual one (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Frank Filz
	Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) has (...) Ooh, even before I got better, I would never have supported this... (...) otherwise (...) sponsered (...) any (...) I used to have this opinion. My feeling now is that anything worthwhile that the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Political Poll Was (Art Debate, among others....] —Scott Edward Sanburn
	(...) Ahh! I just got a Libertarian rating! Larry is changing my views, AHHHH!!! :) Scott S. ___...___ Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net Systems Administrator/CAD Operator-Affiliated Engineers -> (URL) Page -> (URL) Page -> (URL) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
	(...) A community I lived in for a while didn't have access to a public library, because the majority (but not an overwhelming majority -- something like 60%) of the people who lived there didn't want to pay the few cents in taxes to join the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Frank Filz
		Matthew Miller wrote in message ... (...) that (...) That (...) taxes (...) So move to a community which does have a library. (...) If it's worth the cost, it will happen. If it isn't worth the cost, then it isn't worth the cost. Another thought, I (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
			(...) That's fine for the people who can afford to do so. Wouldn't this create a set of uber communities that had all the services, and lower class communities that had no services and people couldn't afford to move out of? Seriously, why not just (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

				Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Jasper Janssen
				(...) Presumably, if a society as a whole gets richer from educating the poor, companies will donate enough to make it possible. The big fallacy is that the vast majority of companies don't look further ahead than next quarter, up to a year or maybe (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

				Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
				weird problem.. (...) that (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
			(...) The house I lived in there was built by my dad on property given my parents by my grandparents. I grew up there and have lots of important memories of it. Many people are attached to where they live by stronger things than that; should they (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Jasper Janssen
	(...) You too? Smack-dab in the middle of left-liberal.. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
		(...) Hey look, me too. (Anyone surprised?) Interesting the web version of this quiz is slightly different from the one I got off of Freshmeat (ported to Unix by Eric Raymond...). That version makes some of the questions be very loaded (to the point (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Jasper Janssen
			(...) Subsidies have a place if you are of the opinion that it is in the National Interest to be selfsufficient to a degree in food. In a sense, farming subsidies are a part of National Defense. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
	Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) library, (...) were (...) set (...) that (...) not (...) I don't think so. My feeling is that the reason we have so much crime is that there are so many people who have little or nothing to lose, so the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
		(...) So you would agree that education and poverty are areas which could do a lot more than they do now if they were more efficient with the money they recieve? Reorganise away, but remember that the Market isn't neccessarily the best optimiser, (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Matthew Miller
			(...) Sounds that way to me. It's Better than a one-vote-per-person system, because this way those who are wealthy (and therefore more qualified to decide what is good for society) get more say. Bill Gates [1] obviously shoud have 25 million times (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

				Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Jasper Janssen
				(...) Only inasfar as Bill Gates is a nazi. And despite my intense dislike for the man, who definitely shouldn't have 25 million times more say than anyone else, I doubt he is _that_. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Frank Filz
	Matthew Miller wrote in message ... (...) So just because your dad happened to build a house somewhere, you think the whole world should bow down and provide all the "niceties" of life, regarless of whether the location your dad built his house on (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
		(...) It's a very sensible location. It's land that has been in the family for a while and has unmeasurably high personal value. In fact, there are lots of equally valuable connections to places and people in the surrounding community, despite the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Larry Pieniazek
	<Fo04xr.MoE@lugnet.com> <slrn87djsf.fag.matt...ia.bu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Not at all. Not all value can be as easily judged as the operating budget of a library. But if your property (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
		(...) [snip] (...) But the point to which I'm replying is that libraries _would_ get built! (...) Universal access to libraries is something that can obviously benefit society. As I've seen you say: take that as a given for this argument. Again, the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Larry Pieniazek
	<3876E1AE.144F396A@voyager.net> <slrn87dqa8.j61.matt...ia.bu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You're right, I jumped in the middle and didn't check assumptions first. Fuggedaboutit. Frank's doing fine (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Frank Filz
		Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <3877B741.22DBA4E0@v...er.net>... (...) And in fact my assertion, which may not have been perfectly stated is not "every community will have a library", but that if the value of a community library is sufficient, (...) (25 years ago, 9-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
	Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) millions of (...) But if production is made more efficient, this means that those doing the production will get more money, and when you dig all the way down, ultimately the only way to actually spend the (...) (25 years ago, 9-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Larry Pieniazek
		(...) This is precisely why Ford decided to pay his workers 5 bucks a day when people were making 1 and 2 dollars a day. He wanted them to be rich, relatively speaking, and be able to afford his products (and those of his friends). And it worked. (...) (25 years ago, 9-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Libitarian guff —Dave Schuler
			(...) One minor point I'd add regarding the occasional need for government: the Securities Exchange Commission was established to prevent the same cataclysmic market crash from happening again. Among other things, the SEC requires that brokers be (...) (25 years ago, 10-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Christopher L. Weeks
	<Fo1y8z.Mr9@lugnet.com> <38781DD3.4545ED6B@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Wait. Wouldn't that make you status quo guys happy? Our government is a dollar-electable government. Chris (25 years ago, 9-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Lindsay Frederick Braun
		(...) Well, yes, but they're not our dollars at the moment. ;) The important part at the moment is that we strive for it not to be dollar-electable--I wonder what would happen if cash-motivation were allowed to come out into the open? Just a (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Lindsay Frederick Braun
	<Fo1y8z.Mr9@lugnet.com> <38781DD3.4545ED6B@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Fostered by government? If so, only fostered by the government's complicity with the banking/savings and loan (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Jasper Janssen
		(...) Are you _sure_ you're talking about the 1929 crash, and not the 2002 crash? Jasper (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Lindsay Frederick Braun
			(...) Could be either, but there are SEC restrictions on speculation now that would prevent the free-fall of 1929. 1997/8 in Indonesia/East Asia could have done the same thing as 1929, except that the response was very different--in part because we (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Larry Pieniazek
		(...) with (...) Wait, are you saying that the S&L problem wasn't directly caused and directly made worse by Government? Let's review, the FSLIC is a GOVERNMENT agency that charges each and every S&L the SAME premium no matter what the risk profile (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —John DiRienzo
	Sorry, this got long, and you probably won't like it, but there is plenty to argue with. Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) a (...) of? (...) lot (...) recieve? (...) tax (...) up (...) millions of (...) it (...) Very likely, depending on (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
		(...) What I'd really like to see is some sort of.. visualised plan. Like - stage 1, remove some taxes, implement dollar for dollar tax credit charity.. this is what we expect to happen, what has happened? If different then replan. Stage 2, abolish (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —John DiRienzo
	Long and boring, yet plenty controversial... Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) library, (...) were (...) set (...) that (...) not (...) Why not? Those who can climb out of the "mines" will. Those who can't are a monkey on the world's back (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libertarian splurf (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
		(...) Gosh. The point that is that if you are uneducated, and can't afford to educate your children, then they won't be able to educate theirs.. and you're condemning generations to poverty.. that truely is only liberty for the rich, which is (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —John DiRienzo
	Matthew Miller wrote in message ... (...) the (...) sensible (...) more (...) I posted a message to RTL that said, WTB 4558, 4536, 4547, 4549, 4554, 2150 in boxes or sealed. Unfortunately, I can't afford them all right now. Will you buy them for me? (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Matthew Miller
		(...) If having access to Lego provides a better [1] society, than it's probably something we want to work towards. (Having Lego in schools might be a good way.) Since I think that universal education is very beneficial, it's something I think (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

			Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?] —Richard Franks
			(...) To provide any clarification - I agree with this as well.. I just want to find the best path to utopia. Richard (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

	Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Frank Filz
	<Fo8LLM.K4F@lugnet.com> <Fo8q9s.8p7@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Well, stage 0 is get enough people on the boat so that a reasonable plan can be worked out that won't be immediately (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]) —Richard Franks
		(...) I think you already have enough people btw :) Looking at (URL) I see lots of research into the types of action they want to affect, but not too much research into the actual consequences that it could have. IMO it would be a good thing, as it (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)