 | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —David Eaton
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| | | (...) So, what's that got to do with the Left per se? I mean, as far as I can tell, the only difference is that the Left would want to allow such a shift, whereas the Right would want to disallow it. I don't think the Left is actually *encouraging* (...) (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Would that one of the Right or Left actually DID want to allow people choice. Neither conventional end of the conventional spectrum acts like it does want that. (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Kevin Blocksidge
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| | | | | | | (...) Guys, guys. I think John is just sickened by that terrible outfit: (URL) model for Davidelfin> This is purely a "he's wearing what?" situation not a "he's afirming his choice to what?" situation. ~Kevoh tongue -> cheek (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —David Eaton
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| | | | | | (...) With respect to a cultural shift towards unmanliness, or in general? I mean, I haven't actually seen evidence that the Left cares one way or another in regards to the decline of masculinity, but I have seen a tendancy on the Right of general (...) (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) In general. Both the conventional Right and conventional Left (in the US anyway) want to restrict choices... I think you're right, the right may be a bit more nervous about gender bending but that's small potatoes really. The quote I cited to (...) (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Leonard Hoffman
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| | | | | | | (...) Matters on what you define as "manliness." Some forms of masculinity are rebuffed by the Left - such as not allowing women into the army (the manly-man should never have to rely on women to fight wars). You could say that the Politically (...) (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —C. L. GunningCook
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| | | | | | | | (...) Always nice to be informed on what the malnutritioned MALE will be wearing this fall, tho! On another level, this whole discussion does say a lot about the political climate/freedoms we do enjoy, regardless what side of the fence you sit on, (...) (19 years ago, 8-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Seriously? It's at the heart of the equality issue. The Left thinks that in order for women to become equal with men, they must imitate men. It is the Left who is uncomfortable with distinct male/female roles. They have hopelessly confused (...) (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) In other words, they can be (URL) Separate But Equal.> I see... Dave! (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) So I assume you believe that separate bathrooms for men and women is sexist and wrong? JOHN (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) As a matter of fact, I do think it's pointless. I briefly addressed (URL) this very point> a while back (admittedly, while you were sort of sitting-out from ot.debate). Dave! (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Small edit--there should have been a smiley on that reply, since my early post was replying to (so you proably weren't sitting out!) Dave! (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) I'm in the "I'm not sure we need to separate mens and womens restrooms" camp also. There is a minor point about the non-privacy of urinals, but then we could either put a urinal in each stall, or we could put the urinals in their own room, or (...) (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) What if I took 2 polls and asking men and then women whether or not they'd like to see unisex restrooms-- how do you suppose the results would differ? You as a male may think it's pointless, but I seriously doubt that women would feel the same (...) (19 years ago, 10-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Frank has already given a (URL) discussion> of this objection, so I'll defer to him on this point. If the constraints of cost and space were somehow eliminated, would you object to the mandatory inclusion of a gender-neutral bathroom facility (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) Many places actually have those-- they are called "family bathrooms", and are a good idea for that reason. (...) In theory that's fine, but in practical terms a nightmare. (...) Again, efficiency is WAY more important than being "PC". (my new (...) (19 years ago, 22-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) I don't see why, honestly. Or, if it is a big problem, then why not have two separate gender-neutral bathrooms? (...) It sounds as though you're respecting the distinctiveness of the 2 sexes more than you are respecting a person of either of (...) (19 years ago, 22-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) ...and speaking of fearing the left, when I visited a friend at his dorm at UC Berekeley, the bathrooms on his floor where unisex. I tell you, it ruins romance to have a girl into the stall next to you and...well, there is a point where too (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | (...) I visited an MIT dorm once that had a unixex bathroom, with showers... You bring up an interesting and quaint "difference" between males and females. Culture hides the fact that females can have digestive outbursts just as males do, while (...) (19 years ago, 14-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | (...) Some segments of society feel that, but it has nothing to do with what I just said (though I suppose if you feel that I didn't qualify "romance" as only applying to females with me, I can understand the mistake). ;-) -->Bruce<-- (19 years ago, 14-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Pete White
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| | | | | | (...) There is no need for women to be placed on pedestals, once you realise they can create their own stools. pete.w (19 years ago, 23-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Well, yeah, until they've wrecked'em. JOHN FUT.pun (19 years ago, 23-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | (...) This has nothing to do with "allowing" anything. I'm not advocating banning or allowing anything. I'm talking about cultural shifts with which I strongly disagree. This is yet another example of those who would want to blur the lines between (...) (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —David Eaton
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| | | | (...) Well, not necessarily you per se, but it's one of those things that the Right is generally against. Gay marriage being the big ticket item at the moment. Things like that, restrictions on stem cell research, and even things like gambling & (...) (19 years ago, 9-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | (...) It's all how you look at it. The Right is against the Left redefining marriage. (...) Mainly the Right is against government funding for such research. Same with abortion. But yes, there is a moral component to it as well. (...) Prostitution, (...) (19 years ago, 10-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —David Eaton
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| | | | | (...) Not to steer it in a totally different direction, but I still just don't get that. It's not the act redefining that you object to (or, it SHOULDN'T be). Redefining "who's allowed to vote" or "which race can use this bathroom" I'll hope you'll (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Every person has the right to choose one person of the opposite sex for marriage and have that union recognized by the government. The exact same right for everyone. If one choses a same-sex partner, or 3 partners, or any variety of farm (...) (19 years ago, 22-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) This may be an unintentional misstatement of the facts. My impression is that an all-out ban on stem-cell research would receive massive support from the Right, but the Right realizes that it's a game of inches. First, ban government funding (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | (...) The Right's objection to stem cell research revolves around the use of fetal stem cells. It is their fear that unborn fetuses will become stem cell gardens for research. I know of no objections to the usage of other types of stem cells such as (...) (19 years ago, 22-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Sorry for the ambiguity--it wasn't an attept to trap you. I was referring to fetal stem cells, which scientific consensus identifies as likely the most fruitful source of therapeutic treatments. The silliness of the Right's objection is (...) (19 years ago, 22-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Or maybe (URL) not.> Well, how about that! And right in my own backyard. Heck, I don't have any let's-kill-as-many-e...s-possible agenda; I just want the science to proceed. This is very encouraging, though of course we'll need to see more (...) (19 years ago, 24-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —John Neal
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| | | | (...) As you have noted elsewhere, this consensus most certainly doesn't exist and scientific progress can most likely procede without the use of fetal stem cells. (...) This is actually a good point. I know that numerous eggs are used purely for (...) (19 years ago, 24-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Kyle McDonald
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| | | | | (...) All politicians are most interested in the unthinking flock. Both sides have a flock like this that will beleive and regurgitate what ever they are told, expecially when it is what they want to hear. Niether party is any better than the other (...) (19 years ago, 24-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: I think I'm going to puke.... —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Since I've already ceded that point, I think we can move on. Also, I don't know what I was smoking that led me to fail to distinguish between fetal and embryonic, which really is central in this context. My apologies. (...) We need to define (...) (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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