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(...) Okay, let's put away the racist card already. Islam is a *religion*. Followers of Islam are *Muslims*. "Arab" is a race term, not "Muslim", okay? (...) Sorry I wasn't clear in my meaning: "Enlightenment" A philosophical movement of the 18th (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) All right. Why don't we use the term "bigot" then? (...) If you're going to use the term "enlightenment" as litmus test to determine whether a group is worthy of respect, then you need to throw out groups that work to foster pseudoscience in (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thank you. But really, I haven't a problem with Islam per se. There are many peaceful Muslims. What I *do* have a problem with are extremist Muslims who tend to comprise a shockingly high percentage of the Muslim population, and the seemingly (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It might be useful to have a clear, legitimate tally of extremists relative to the whole sample population. We can't use the US media or Arab-state-run media, since both of these sources are tainted. There are over a billion Muslims in the (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, say we compared it to the percentage of extremist Christians for example. I don't know what that number is, but judging from reported Christian terrorist attacks I'd say that it is pretty low. Even if the percentage of extremist Muslims (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What if the belief system itself is flawed? As I understand it, to be a good muslim, one has to follow sharia (religious law). Sharia is used as civil law in many countries and in many others, it's being pushed as something that SHOULD be used (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Most like USA's death penalty. Who are we to decide what is right or wrong? This is called a cultural clash. In the Muslim culture, Adultery may be one of the worst thing a person can do in his/her life. If so, it would be logical for this (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You seem to be saying we can't judge other cultures. Can we judge people? Can we judge groups of people? How many people have to follow the same idea before we can't judge it? I would point out that many wrongdoers in the world believe that (...) (22 years ago, 19-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Of course, you judge your own values better to others. Muslims would also have great arguments to debate with you, I suppose. That's not the point. We can't kill others. It's a human right to be alive, to have our life preserved and protected. (...) (22 years ago, 20-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "France is not a Western Country anymore"
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) <snip> Far better to simply declare that all rights are property rights and assign a dollar value for all transgressions, eh Larry? Cheers Richie Dulin (22 years ago, 21-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You're being sarcastic, but I'll take you seriously anyway... my answer is yes. Seems fairer to me than imposing sharia on all residents of a country just because an islamic government happens to get into power. (22 years ago, 21-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why would sarcasm be a reason *not* to take a comment seriously? (...) But it's okay simply declare that all rights are property rights and assign a dollar value for all transgressions, just because a capitalist government* happens to get into (...) (22 years ago, 21-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Capitalist governments, *by definition*, don't just "happen" to get into power, and the process of assigning dollar values is not random, capricious, unappealable, or unchanging. Given those clarifications... yes, in my view, it is OK for such (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Are you confusing 'capitalist' with 'democratic'? (...) A new dollar value determined every time for every transaction... Imagine the beurocracy behind that! LOL (...) Cheers Richie Dulin (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nope, are you? (...) I imagined it already, it's ZERO. There is no bureacracy involved.. We said *capitalist*, remember. The market does it for you. I determine a dollar value every time I do a transaction now. Don't you? Or do you buy stuff (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Apparently so. (...) It *seems* like a good idea, it *seems* like it might work. Because all rights are property rights and all that... Okay, so I accidentally kill my neighbour. Darn it, I say. I must make recompense for the killing. Do I (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) In a manner of speaking, yes. You can expect a wrongful death lawsuit from his heirs (and insurance company) unless you settle out of court. But even so you may get some criminal penalty applied too... depending on the nature of the accident (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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So people have a value... A $$$ value I mean. Depending on their status, where they live, what they do, how they act... We are far from the "We are all equal" objective here. To me, the fact that money gets involved to settle a crime is wrong. Money (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ahh... so we can dispense with the beaurocracy do determine the price of the crime and build a judiciary instead. Seems like a good idea. But what is this mention of a criminal penalty? How does that fit with an 'all rights are property (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think breaching a contract is wrong. That's a general principle. My contract prohibits it. Why? I personally don't think that it would be a good idea for me personally to be an adulterer. So it would be wrong for me. But I am not so (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) <snipped the adultery bit> (...) Determined by a judicial process... so once again, you need a judiciary... and because your theoretical system is dynamic, values for transgressions need to be determined each and every time, so it's going to (...) (22 years ago, 22-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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