 | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | (...) In general, yes. (...) If that was the only change, yes. But I'm not advocating that one change alone, so no. (...) I can say yes to that question, because in general I am satisfied that regulations do not significantly lower risk, but rather, (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | (...) Please state all the changes that WOULD make it safer. I don't think you're going to convince me that it would be safer without requiring licenses, even with the threat of lawsuits left and right. There are already too many people driving (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) Maybe some other time, this is a bit of a sidetrack. (...) Great, let's work to remove regulation where we both agree... (...) and when that deregulation happens, and people get used to the idea that regulations DON'T keep them safer than the (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | | (...) (snipped) (...) If so many favor it, it can be right. The choice of the majority, right or wrong, is the one to follow. The basic principle of Democracy. (...) I dunno, I'll take your word for it. ;-) Pedro (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) No. Might, or mob rule, does not make right. Rights must be paramount to the desires of the mob. I reject democracy when it is unfettered. The majority voting to deny even one single person rights, while democratic, is unjust. I prefer a (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Huh... does that mean only a few can decide my rights, if I belong to the mob? I disagree with you all the way. If more people want it, it is to be done. (...) (sorry, did not understand... please provide synonym. TIA) (...) Ah, yes. See (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | | (...) But who, then, decides what those rights should be. You? Me? Thinking over it, I would prefer the second ;-) :wq Horst (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) There is no perfect scheme but I prefer some process (undefined? what our founding fathers did? something else?) to ratify some basic set of rights and then sticking to those rather than allowing 51% majorities to override them on whim. If (...) (23 years ago, 11-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | | | (...) Whatever we in Germany have set down as basic rights can only be changed with 2/3 (instead of 1/2) of the votes. Not a perfect solution, but there has to be a legal way to change things that don't work well, even with basic rights ... :wq (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) Something that tends to get forgotten I think is that just because all _government_ regulation is removed that there will be no regulation. I'm sure many, if not most, of the licenses which exist today would exist in a Libertopia. The (...) (23 years ago, 9-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | (...) Why? Isn't the beloved Constitution of the United States of America, plus ammendments, a compilation of general regulations? And isn't your freedom to criticize regulations DUE to regulations? :-) (...) Ok, what would you complement that (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | (...) But that's not what I meant. I was talking about the risk that fundamental rights will be violated, like when someone gets killed. And I do believe that driver's licenses, while they certainly cannot eliminate the risk, still do a good job of (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Laws, not regulations, ameliorate fundamental rights violations. If someone gets killed and an automobile is involved, there are some possibilities The auto was used as a weapon - this is murder and the law against murder is the thing to (...) (23 years ago, 11-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) But not in others? Surely the relative percentages of each would give an indication of whether the overall risk is lowered by licences or not? Have there been any studies about this? ROSCO (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Well I COULD assert in all cases but it's not very provable, is it? (...) I'm suspecting not, since I don't know of any jurisdiction (similar enough to make meaningful comparisions, Botswana (if they didn't require them) doesn't count) that (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Note that we're talking about drivers licenses here. I have seen LOTS of studies (and you could go dig them up if you wanted to, try starting at cato.org) about other sorts of licenses... all different kinds of licenses, showing inefficacy, (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | Hello Larry, it seems you have discussed this earlier than I jumped in. From some earlier posting from you on air safety I assume that you advocate the free market for any type of product, even security. (...) So, if I get you right, you would want (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) Yup. And some kind of licensing and proof of insurance will probably be part of that security. Incidentally, were I to be a road owner, one thing I would insist on is that drivers be insured in addition to vehicles. The vehicle isn't (usually) (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | (...) Subject to the usage agreements, of course. As Frank said, different companies would have different agreements. (...) Correct. Please note that if I were privatising things, roads would be far down the list, after many many many easier things (...) (23 years ago, 10-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | (...) But doesn't it take some sensible level of safety (as opposed to absolute safety) to ensure the value of the "life" part of your rights definition? (...) Don't get me wrong: As long as X is NOT a basic human right, I am OK with X being only (...) (23 years ago, 12-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Paid for by whom? Government sets up systems but should not be providing goods. What is the value of a life, by the way? Don't answer infinite, that's the wrong answer and will give you silly results. The proper functions of goverment in a (...) (23 years ago, 13-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —James Brown
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| | | | | | | (...) Hmm, Larry, I think you fired that off without thinking about it, or you're being obtuse. My circumstances have a great deal to do with how hard I work, yes. That applies, in a relative degree, to virtually everyone on the planet (work (...) (23 years ago, 13-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Horst Lehner
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| | | | | | (...) If security is a good, then the right to live has very little value as well. (...) It seems to be more in Europe than in the US. (...) That was too quick a victory for you to let it go ;-) First, I already have said that I see no way to (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Or more likely, they were blessed with beneficial circumstances. (...) And here's the only problem with laissez faire. OF COURSE it isn't fair that those who are cleverer have more than those who are not. What deep misunderstanding of the (...) (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Gotta love Oracle... —Scott Arthur
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| | | | (...) It is even less fair (in a libertarian world) if a person who has more $$, can give their kids better access to healthcare and education. This makes it harder for poorer kids to succeed. We had a system like that in the UK before WW2. (...) (23 years ago, 14-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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